Oakland Weekend

Friday, September 15, 2006, 2:35 pm

Weekend Ahead

The weekend ahead will be fun.  Let’s take 2-of-3 or sweep and then see what the Tigers series brings next week.  Of course, there is that haunting stat of past performances in the Bay Area that looms over our heads … like we have won four of the last 24 games we have played there since going 4-2 in 2000.  To recap the memorable moments, we were 0-3 in 2001; 0-6 in 2002; 1-2 in 2003; 1-5 in 2004 and 2-4 in 2005.  So the publicist in me draws the line at 2003 … we are 4-7 since then (not quite as bad).  Realistically, none of past performances by prior teams in Oakland really matter.  It’s all of us who remember sitting up late at night watching all of these debacles who are haunted.  I don’t think Pablo Ozuna or Javier Vazquez care a whit.

September Morning

Until last season’s September heroics (or great escape depending upon your glass full/glass empty approach to life), most winning White Sox seasons lacked pennant race drama (again a good thing or bad thing depending upon your point of view).  Well, this year, we certainly have a three-headed race and it looks like it’s going down to the wire.  It really is a charge to wake up each morning, read the newspapers (or online sites for anyone under 35), watch television and catch up on all the news impacting your team.  Who won?  Who lost?

There is something special about a pennant race.

Which Brings Me To …

Sitting in my car last night listening to the Indians/Twins game on XM (what a gift from the gods) swearing and hanging on every pitch.  Then wondering what has come of my life that I am spending an off day (evening, really) letting my blood pressure rise and fall based on the Indians bullpen (I assume Cleveland fans can empathize).

But such was our lot …

Hawk And The Heinie Bird

What a great headline!  Kudos to the Trib copy writer who came up with that one.  If you haven’t seen it, give John Kass’s column a read today in the Chicago Tribune.  It’s a hoot (ornithology references for 500 please, Alex).

By now, everyone has weighed in on whether Hawk was right or wrong to mention Freddy’s emag tcefrep Wednesday.

This letter from Bob Vorwald of WGN TV went to Jay Mariotti at the Sun-Times in response to Jay’s column yesterday (don’t bother reading it, you can pretty much imagine what he wrote). 

Dear Jay

I read with amusement this morning your latest attempt to go after Hawk Harrelson and I couldn’t disagree with your premise more. Your stated fact that it is a "traditional code" for a baseball announcer to not mention a no-hitter in progress is simply not true. You fail to mention Jack Brickhouse and Harry Caray in your article, both of whom are Hall of Fame baseball play-by-play legends and both of whom did exactly that. I don’t seem to remember Brick’s accurate description of the game and use of the word "no-hitter" on WGN telecasts denying Don Cardwell, Ken Holtzman, Burt Hooten, and Milt Pappas their place in the record books. You also inaccurately twist the story of Len Kasper and Bob Brenly calling Glendon Rusch’s game last year when they were obviously having fun with this "taboo" by using every phrase possible except "no-hitter" or "perfect game".

When ESPN cuts into programming to show us a no-hitter or perfect game in progress, are they breaking this "rule" as well? How in the world was Nolan Ryan, for example, ever able to pitch his last few no-hitters while such transgressions occurred? Is it your opinion that a broadcaster should do a disservice to the viewers and not fully inform them of possible history in progress? Fine, those are the type of arguments that make baseball a wonderful sport. However, that doesn’t mean that we should ever avoid our responsibility to fully inform our viewers, especially those that might be tuning in late to see an afternoon game from the West Coast, of everything that is transpiring on the field.

The superstitions of the baseball dugout make for wonderful stories and are great to follow, but that’s where they belong – in the dugout. Hawk was doing his job in accurately informing our viewers about an exciting storyline in what was otherwise a blowout win by the White Sox. Baseball announcers have many different styles, preferences, and beliefs. Again, that’s what makes the game so great. To say that Hawk and WGN were "committing the ultimate sin" and "violating a traditional code" is simply untrue.


Bob Vorwald
Executive Producer
WGN Sports

Thanks to Bob for permission to reprint this letter.

Anyway … what do you, the fans, think? What would you like out of a telecast in that situation?

I’d be interested in hearing from you.

Friday Nights

And while I am on that topic, visit whitesox.com to vote on your preference, 7:05 pm starts on Friday nights or 7:30 pm?

We moved the start times back 30 minutes this year because of our concerns about construction delays on the Dan Ryan with folks trying to get home and then to the ballpark on already busy Friday nights.

As we plan for 2007, we want to hear what you think.  Feel free to vote (but unlike the Final Man vote, please vote just once).

By the way, what are the chances that the powers that be will ever let another Sox player onto that list? We will be victims of our own success …

September 23

A reminder that FOX TV will now televise next Saturday’s game against the Mariners, so game time is 12:25 pm. Please mark your calendars. Friday’s game will now feature fireworks.

Let’s enjoy a big, big weekend in the Bay.

See you Monday.


The Heinie bird is an idiot. We shouldn’t even be wieghing in on his drivel.

Hawk, as an announcer, has every right to talk about the baseball game in front of him. Any person who thinks that an announvcer can change the path of any pitch or batted ball is absolutely clueless.

Go get ’em tonight Jon!

Gang when you read Jay Mariotti, when you watch Jay Mariotti when you listen to Jay Mariotti you are doing EXACTLY what he and his employers want you to do.

You are paying attention to him.

Meanwhile do you thinks he actually cares what you think of him? He’s laughing all the way to the bank.

I mean he recently was put on suspension/vacation for ripping his own employers at the Sun-Times and they rewarded him with a contract extension.

What does that tell you folks?

It says he’s a ratings draw, he sells newspapers and that’s all that matters to the folks who are paying him.

If you really want to ‘get him out of town.’ Then under no circumstances watch, listen, read anything he writes. Don’t talk about him on the internet. IGNORE him. Cancel your subscriptions and let the Sun-Times know WHY you are doing it, you can also write their advertisers and let them know you won’t purchase their products anymore and tell them WHY you are doing it.

If enough folks do that, you’ll get the action you desire.

Mark Liptak

My personal opinion is that it’s fine for an announcer or even a fan to mention a no-hitter when it looks like it’s close to actually happening. Part of this is because I am not one to believe in superstitions like this. Also, I feel that as long as the pitcher doesn’t actually hear the conversations about the no-hitter, it’s okay. If the pitcher hears talk about it then, yes, it would probably make him nervous and he might actually screw it up. Of course, I’m sure from even the 5th or 6th inning on, Freddy was thinking about pitching a no-hitter and of course became more anxious than he would in any other game, but as long as his teammates or people within earshot don’t put further pressure on him, it’s okay. I also feel that by Hawk mentioning it and possibly talking about it, it draws more attention in from fans who are watching it on TV. It’s fun to talk about it if you’re not someone who’s actually participating in it because you can share the excitement with the people around you.

I can personally figure out what is happening in a game by innuendo. But, whereas I have heard people state that they would have liked it obviously stated, whether they were at work, just getting in their car, yes it is probably better to let it be known because you never know when a listener or viewer is just coming into the broadcast. It brings the listener up to speed. It is all part of history, and if Freddie had completed the perfect game, and hindsight it might be upsetting to viewers that were not aware of what was happening. Say you get into your car after work, have to run into the store for milk, well, I wouldn’t be getting the milk until after the game, if you know what the situation is. I understand that Ed Farmer, being a former pitcher, has in his heart that he is sooo rooting for this guy to do it, that he still went by dugout ethic. There are people that can read between the lines. We live in an up to the minute news world which supplies Mr. Mariotti’s paycheck, so it is very amusing that he finds this doling out of information by Mr. Harrelson as a dispicable. Hmmm, you are both in positions of informing, RIGHT JAY? Please…stop with the picking at Hawk, Ozzie, et all, you have definitely become the bully. Didn’t your mother teach you that if you don’t like what someone says or does to turn the other cheek, and DON’T listen. To insult someone for the way they speak is not good journalism, it is rude. Mr. Mariotti has become tedious, and I certainly hope that the Sox and all of their announcers can take the high road and not give this man the time of day. He is not worth the effort.

“A Heinie Bird is a bird that flies in perfectly executed concentric circles until eventually, it dives up its own behind and disappears.”

How terrifically funny is this, I’d heard him say it a time or two just never knew what it meant. As far as Jay goes, I met a gal, cub fan, in Houston the other day who recently moved here.. trust me when I say that Sox fans aren’t the only ones that think Mr. M has some form of ‘illness’.

Hawk, your voice is as familiar to me as my own father’s.. we love you!

Kris-far from home and humid AGAIN in Texas!

If that idiot is going to blame Hawk, he should also blame Chris Rangey. I was listening on the radio and Chris came on in between innings and said Freddy had retired 21 in a row. I agree with Alex, if the player doesnt hear it than it doesnt matter.

Loved the letter from the WGN exec, had his facts all in line. Thanks for printing, Scott. I already posted yesterday, in a nutshell, you don’t mention it in the dugout so as to put more pressure on the pitcher. He’s putting enough on himself as it is. But, then again, maybe the silence adds to the pressure, who knows. But, it really seemed like DoDo bird actually thought anybody mentioning it would jinx the Fred man. How goofy is that, to believe in jinxes. That guy does seriously have problems, I pity the fool.

I think that in the case of a …erfect-pa ame-ga I’d rather not have the announcer say it. It makes it all the more exciting when you discover it for yourself when they show the RHE. They could just hint at it. (On the other hand, if they don’t say it no one makes a big deal out of it later even though they should.) It’s hard to say really…
Anyway… go get ’em guys.

who cares…and you all thought my frank thomas debate was bad. this mariotti **** is 15 Xs worse

By no means am I agreeing with Jay Mariotti. Believe me, it pains me to even consider it, but there are certain unwritten rules of baseball, one of which being not to mention a no-hitter or perfect game in those words. It is perfectly ok to hint around it, but to say the word is not something you do. I didn’t get a chance to hear the radio version, but usually Farmer works around the situation quite nicely. I’m not saying that it is Hawk’s fault, that would be superstitous and silly, but he did break an unwritten rule.
However, in the article, the columnist in question mocks Hawk’s use of the english language and picks on his sayings. I think Hawk is one of the best in the business, and his patented “stretch” “Mercy” and “he gone” is the reason he has the following that he does. What does it say that on any given night in a south side bar you’ll hear these words at least 2 or 3 times?

Ya Hawk is the S*it, and I think of Mariotti excetly how Ozzie thinks of him, but the blog isn’t a good place to write those types of things. I’m on ESPN.com Gamecasting the Sox game because we don’t get WCIU here at school. P.S.- I’m sick, that’s why I’m not partying tonight. Mackowiak just hit a bomb, Garland should just pitch 7 more scoreless innigs as Minnesota just lost.

In case anyone is wondering….I am watching the Dodgers’ game on tv, and Vin Scully, (one of the greatest baseball announcers of all time), has been talking about Greg Maddux taking a no-hitter into the 7th. Scully actually said the words “no-hitter” quite a few times. Just thought I would throw that out there.


Scully is a BLASPHEMER! just kidding. there you go, there is nothing wrong talking about a no-no outside of the dugout. come on Guys, let’s get another HIT? we made loaiza look like another great pitcher. they are all great when they face us. why is that? j.k. still hoping for a series win. go Sox…

Tough loss. When you have your ace going today and you’re facing their ace tomorrow, you have to find a way to win. We didn’t, and it cost us dearly.

We’ll need a big two games here, taking at least one but obviously two would be better, and then a huge three game homestand against det. We almost have to sweep them, as winning 2-3 doesn’t do much at this point.

Should be fun to watch, but only if we win.

I’ll be glad to watch the game tomorrow rather than listening on mlb radio and gamecasting. Also, just bought my ticket for game 2 of the 3 game set in Minnesota. I sure hope it’s not an irrelevant game, unless we’ve already clinched something.

Just got back from doing my football broadcasting and caught the result. No surprise, it’s the House of Horros remember?

At least Minnesota lost.

Another missed opportunity.

By the way in 8 of the last 12 games the ‘vaunted’ Sox offense (slogan: ‘Give me an eight run home run or give me death!!)has been held to three runs or less.

You know it doesn’t even get me angry anymore. I just want this season to end.

Mark Liptak

tonights game was brutal. Mackowiak in center cost us again, jd terrible outfield play on that throw in, thome not coming through in the clutch (no suprise there)…..but the thing that was the worst was hawk and dj looking for any little thing to talk bad about frank…..frank was hot that he didnt drive in a run, instead getting a runner over, and screamed in the dugout….hawk and dj “thats not how you play the game” blahblahblah…..shoulda said thats not how you play the game when thome popped up with the bags juiced, or when konerko took strike three down the MIDDLE of the plate to end the game, or when dye dogged it on that sack fly, or the fact that guillen once again put a scrub in the outfield……it seems to me that they were told from above to talk bad about frank any chance they get. i am also sick of dj saying that frank thomas’ pattended swing is when he hit a pop up down the right field line….the guy hit more homers in a month than dj did in his career. he needs to keep quite, or go play center instead of mackowiak.

why ozzie continues to march the awful, just ******** AWFUL rob mackowiak out into centerfield 3 times a week, i will never know.

if there is a poll that asks ‘what caused the white sox to miss the playoffs this year,” in october…i wont check lack of consistent offense, i wont check bad starting pitching, i will check rob mackowiak in centerfield. sure, he’s come up with some big hits this season…just like today, a solo HR. but after that HR, he cost us 2 runs.

ANDERSON IN CENTERFIELD DAY IN AND DAY OUT OZZIE! god…im just some silly drunkard of a fan and even *I* know that BA belongs out there 99% of the time.

just read in the white sox notes ozzie saying that if frank gets on it will take 5 hits to score him……wow sounds an awful lot like thome, konerko, pierzynski and crede to me doesnt it? i remember when they had 4 hits in an inning and scored once. he should keep his mouth shut and put the right players out there to do the job……mackowiak in center….what a maroon..as bugs bunny would say

All day the only thing i’ve been looking forward to is watching the Sox on fox, only to find out that of course, the Yankees and Boston are playing on Fox, and so I will once again be listening to mlb audio and gamecasting.

I despise the east coast.

Mackowiak has lost more games playing centerfield because of his glove (and bad jumps) than he has won with his bat.

Hawk and DJ did get all over JD for his flat-footed catch in the outfield. They also called out Mackowiak for his bad jump and said the entire game that 2 of those runs were “gimme runs”.

Let’s just win the next 15 (or 16?) straight and forget about everything else.

I concur, Mackowiak is terrible in centerfield. Ozzie shouldn’t be giving the all hands on deck speech and that trot Mackowiak out there unless he is conceding the game. Mackowiak is a GREAT backup player better suited for the corner outfield spots and third. WHy is he playing center when we have Aderson, Owens and Sweeney sitting on the bench?

Garland deserved a much better fate last night….If Mackoviak isn’t playing out by the BART(Bay Area Rapid Transit—kind of a West Coast CTA(gawd,I hope NOT,for their sakes out there…))tracks,the parachute that Payton hits is caught….And the throw home by J Dye was ill advised,but what can you do after it’s been done?
It’s the same sad old story….the starting pitching was there,the bullpen didn’t exactly kill them(Payton,again,beating out a DP ball for the insurance run),but the lack of bats DID….and that may just be the death of this club yet in’06….

You don’t have much time left,White Sox….and you can’t keeping hoping and wishing for the two teams in front of you to fall apart completely….because as sure as Los Tigres got their second wind against the pathetic O’s last night(personal to d reifer….Ira,how can the people in Charm City STAND all that ****???? It should cost Perlozzo and Flanagan their jobs in another two weeks…..)and team Rah-Rah gets their jollies out of deanklub’s underperforming Tribe….while the boys continue to flounder in the East Bay,the sands of time are running out…..

Three main reasons the Sox have had the season that they have had. In no particular order.

1. Yes the starting pitching has been off but have you looked at the number of wins by the starters? How about the number of quality starts?

If you want to blame the pitching place it where it belongs…on an awful bullpen that was short from day one and then had the meltdowns of Politte and Cotts.

2. Inconsistent offense, an offense that has ONE more win right now in the second half then the KANSAS CITY TRIPLE A ROYALS and has scored less then 300 runs (after scoring over 500 in the first half.)

3. Attitude. This was a problem from day one and Ozzie knew it. He called a meeting a week into spring training games to talk about ‘effort.’ Obviously he saw something he didn’t like. That has been reflected in things like Garcia’s comments about only pitching well in big games and the Sox awful record versus teams that are getting the snot beat out of them by practically everyone else in MLB.

Mark Liptak

Oh and one other thing I noticed reading the newspapers today, the ‘no beer’ in Oakland story.

I found it interesting that according to the story Ozzie got “angry” that Billy Beane banned all beer in the clubhouse.

The Sox play like garbage last night, for the month of September and basically since the All-Star break. Have we seen Ozzie explode? Call out players? Bench guys for bad performance?


But take away “beer”… now that’s a whole different matter isn’t it?

Ozzie’s had just as bad a season managing as his players have had playing. (And I’m not going to even get into the insanity of playing a guy in center who by his own admission AGAIN today to the newspapers isn’t good at it and is surprised to be even playing there.)

Mark Liptak

INCREDIBLE!!! this is the first fox saturday White Sox game broadcast all year here in tucson. i don’t know how i’ll be able to watch a real game after so many weeks of gameday “action”. somehow i will manage. good points from Mark above. we all hope he is wrong, but…. one game at a time Boys. you all need to bring your A game and give it everything. there is no more time to coast because of it being a long season. if we don’t get hot in the next 5 games it will be too late. time to start playing like champs the brand who want more, not the kind that is satisfied with one and done… j.k. from the land of a baseball game on TV!!!

Phew. Gameday disabled the link to the mlb audio on the gamecast page, but I was able to get to it from chisox.com.

Nice first inning for Javi. No surprise though, he’s always pretty solid in the first few. He’s been much better lately though, hopefully he can keep it up and we can get to Zito early and knock him out of there. He looked a little wild in the first.

For a split second, I thought about flying home from New Jersey to attend one of the Chi Sox/Detroit games, but then I remember that would cost money, specifically my money.

Let’s get a stinking win today and put some pressure on Detroit and Minnesota.

Go Sox.

Walking in a run is the ultimate **** **** move.. I’m outta here.. I’m not usually negative but I think today I’ve just had enough of crappy bullpen.. my crying is over…

So sad and soggy in Texas!

Gotta tip your hat to Matt Thornton for walking Jason Kendall on four pitches and putting the tying run in scoring position.

Also, job well done by MacDougal for walking Bradley on four pitches to pitch to Frank. Of course, when you’re gonna follow that up with another walk, perhaps there could have been a better approach.

TERRIBLE baseball. That is absolutely pathetic. We ****, and if you don’t think so, you’re wrong.

We’re not going to the playoffs because we don’t pitch well when we need to, we don’t get runners in from third with less than two outs, and we don’t beat the teams below us.

Go ahead and call me a pessimist, but when the glass only contains about 25% liquid, it seems a little silly to me to still call it half full.

I still luv em though.. and I’ll watch tomorrow I’m sure..even though right now I’m telling myself that I won’t.. it’s just getting worse!!

Michigan is kickin the **** outta Notre Dame?? DUDE! Gotta luv it!

The bullpen F*cking *****!!! I think the lefty-lefty righty-righty matchups are overrated. Boone Logan has no business being in the game in that situation. They better come back or this will be one of those games u look back on at the end of the year and say “what if.”

this team is absolute horse sh*t. what an amazing waste of talent and promise this year has been.

pathetic is really the best word to sum it all up. when you look at the games that we have lost and the brand of baseball that we have played, it is absolutely pathetic.

you guys remember our last winning streak? me neither.

in case you’re wondering, zito’s strike to ball ratio was one pitch away from being exactly 1:1. amazingly, he still went 7 innings and he still picked up the win. that really speaks volumes about our offense these days.

season over.

well, we did it again. one bad inning, but it wasn’t Javy’s fault! i don’t know why Vasquez wasn’t in the seventh? he was dominant through six. even the pitch frank hit out was on the outside of the plate. tip your hat to him for that. and then in the 7th. why not let Matt get out of the trouble he created? early on an interview with Thome indicated that Ozzie goes by his gut and not the righty- lefty maatchups. well, i wish he’d start using his gut again.. we turned barry zito INTO a winner, after losing the game all day. this one hurts all the more because we are in the eleventh hour and the clock is about to strike midnight…. come on Guys. somehow we HAVE to find a way to WIN. go Sox…. j.k. not so glad to have watched the game on tv….

SWEET the best player in sox history came through with 4 r.b.is and lead the team to the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh i forgot frank thomas in now a proud member of the oakland a’s…..meanwhile konerko and thome go 1 for 9. good choice KENNY!!!! the big hurt will finish the year with more rbis than thome and konerko. hopefully he goes on to win the world series because god knows the white sox wont be there. ozzie needs to get the ax….his time has run out here.

i still cant believe that one of my favorite sox players of all time and one of my favorite sox pitchers in the last 10 years are beating us up in this series…..the sox have as much balls as a transvestite. was this loss javi vazquez fault too? all of you guys blame him for everything that goes wrong…start looking in the dugout at our *** of a manager

Stats prior to today’s game:


Thome .289

Frank .280

Home Runs:

Thome 39

Frank 36


Thome 99

Frank 98


Thome 131

Frank 118


Thome 102

Frank 71


Thome 93

Frank 73


Thome .412

Frank .390


Thome – Extremely humble and gracious

Frank – Similar to a 5 year old, maybe a little worse

You’re just plain wrong when you say Kenny made a bad move because he didn’t keep Frank and got Thome instead. Maybe Frank looks better now because he’s coming up with the big hits and Thome isn’t, but Thome was doing it in the beginning of the season when Frank wasn’t. And since every game counts exactly the same, there is no better time to do it. Thome is putting up better numbers than Frank, period.

I’m not sure if you actually remember what Frank Thomas was like? I don’t care if he was the best Sox player ever, he was a liability and he’s a jack ***.

It was a good choice by Kenny. He got a guy who is much more of a team player with a much better personality who is putting up better numbers.

I’m not quite sure what your point is?

Well the bullpen did it again. Like I said gang it’s not the starters this year but a pen that’s been atrocious since Game #2 when Ozzie brought in Boone Logan to serve up a loooonnnngggg home run by Travis Haffner.

It’s been all downhill since then.

By the way that’s now an even dozen games BLOWN by the World Champion Chicago White Sox when they took a lead into the 7th inning or later this season.

NINE of those 12 blown games were directly attributed to the bullpen losing the lead.

I still have hope however….hope that these stiffs with seven All-Stars and a 100 million dollar payroll can win 90 games.

Mark Liptak

Well, at least we learned that we also lose to over .500 teams too!! 5 out of first, 3 out of WC. What time is tee time on October 2?

Who cares if the Sox win 90 games? 90 will not get this sorry bunch of underachievers in the playoffs. Thank god for football. This season is OVER!!!

bigdog youre so wrong its sickening…..thome has hit 9 homers since the allstar break. i dont even remember the last time he had a big hit was. thomas has won so many big games for the A’s its sickening. thome would hit a 3 run shot if we were winning by 4 early in the season. Thomas is much more clutch, was always a decent guy to the fans, and WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS COME OCTOBER. if someone was going to put the final nail in the coffin of the 2006 underachievers…im glad it was frank thomas.

the team misses frank. he had fire, everett had fire….the sox have NO FIRE. look at the pathetic group of losers out there now. i dont think they give a **** if they win or lose. the one guy that has spark is ozuna and the manager uses him sparingly.

thome, konerko, buerhle, podsednik, iguchi are all soft.

time to back up the truck.

Dear White Sox Genal Manager,
I need to thank you for believing that Frank Thomas has deemed a devalued player in your opinion. You believe, Frank “Big Hurt” Thomas depreciated skills no longer help our team return to another World Series Championship. I very pleased to mention Saturday September 16, 2006 that Mr Thomas was named Fox Player of the Game. Your castaway has 37HR, 102 RBI, 281 Ave and 5 SF for the Oakland A’s.

I believe, the Oakland A’s are in 1st place because they aquired the “Big Hurt”. We are struggling to remain in the Wild Card race.

Rich Romo

Rich Romo

by the way you gave the stats coming into today…..coming out of today thomas had another homer and 4 more RBIs. thome had an 0 for. way to go Jim!!!! take your nice guy attitude and stick it. nice guys always finish last.

What exactly has Brian Anderson done to get in Ozzie’s doghouse? Sure he had a bad first half with the stick, but his defense was excellent. He has hit .280 since the All-Star break. With his consistently good defense and a greatly improving bat he is still splitting time with a self-admitted hack in center field.

Apparently Brian must have done something awful, because it is obvious that Ozzie is holding a grudge against him.

The whole thing about a difference in opinion over going to winter ball is ****. Ozzie wants him there the whole time. So in other words he goes from Chicago to winterball and straight to Arizona to compete for the CF job. Think he might be worn out by February? I understand why he might be upset about having to go play a full winter season. Sure he wants to go there to get some more at-bats, but he probably feels Ozzie is trying to wear him out.

Brian is one of the best defensive CF’s in baseball because his consistently good jumps and speed make hard plays look routine. In the second half of the season he has hit better than Aaron did for us last year. What more can you ask from this kid Ozzie? If he sneaks a case of beer into the clubhouse for you on Sunday you think maybe he can play?

For those of you that are ripping the Sox not bringing Frank Thomas back this year: GIVE IT UP!

He received no offers other than from Oakland. The offer from Oakland is an incentive based contract. He is getting somewhere around $500,000 to $600,000 base pay with the opportunity to make as much as $3.1 million based on performance and number of games played. If the White Sox had offered him an incentive based contract he would have trashed Kenny and Jerry for “insulting” him. That would be Frank being Frank. Again, no other teams were interested. Sure the A’s got a great deal. A deal that nobody else was willing to risk on a player who had basically missed almost all of the last two seasons with foot injuries. And for a foot injury for a man Frank’s size is really critical.

Stop bashing the Sox, and think about what would have happened had we made that offer to him.

Got a quick personal story about Frank from about 3 years ago that tells you the kind of person he is. I know a kid who works in a retail store in the west suburbs. His co-worker helped Frank buy a couple TV’s. Frank accidentally left behind an envelope that contained quite a bit of cash. It was said to be just under $10K. Imagine an 18 year old kid finds $10K laying around. Most kids, think holy **** this is gonna buy a ton of stuff! Not this kid though. He went to his manager and they managed to get a number for Frank and let him know what was found. Frank sent one of his friends to go pick it up. Did he give the kid a reward? NO! – maybe an autographed ball or bat? NOPE! He couldn’t even be man enough to go in there and stiff the kid who did the honest thing in person.

That is the kind of a man you are defending. All he cares about is Frank and nobody else. I could guarantee inside he was rooting against us last year because he knew he meant absolutely nothing to that team. They were and will be better off as a TEAM without him!


If Frank Thomas could pitch from the bullpen, then yes we should have kept him. Our DH has not been the problem.

i disagree…our dh has been garbage since may. ive met frank multiple times and i dont have a negative thing to say about him. he was always plesant and friendly.

I was outside of the hyatt once after soxfest as a kid trying to get his autograph and he gave the vallet guy a 100 dollar bill to pull the car up like 20 feet. you hear good and bad stories about everyone.

you can say the sox are a better team without him, but what about the A’s? if they didnt have the big man popping 40 homers and driving in 100+ they would have absolutely no offense. (unless they walk with the bases loaded 400 times like today).

he should have been offered a decent contract by the sox. and williams…who looks like the idiot now????? frank will be hitting cleanup come oct. 3rd and you will be looking to 2007. way to blow it sox. what a bunch of pansies.

So when Thome was hot in the first half and driving in and scoring runs in bunches he gets no credit for that. Ummm Brian Anderson had a better batting average than Frank Thomas did for the first 2-3 months. Sure the A’s are glad they have him. They need the run production.

Rememeber though, the season is 6 months long. If you take away the fact that Thome helped carry this team through the first half, sure you can say this deal was bad for us. But you can’t take away those numbers. Flip flop Frank and Thome, almost identical stats both done at opposite sides of the year. Do the math, are we not in basially the same situation.

The A’s gave him what his market value was, and he had no choice but to accept it because NOBODY else wanted him. You can not deny that he would have blown up on the Sox management had they offered him something similar.

They paid him nearly $10 mil a year to do nothing the last few years. If he was so insulted by the diminshed skills contract clause, a contract that he agreed to, he should have never signed it in the first place. After all the money he took the last few years for basically no service if he were a TEAM player he would have gone to Kenny and asked for the minimum so he could stay here and prove that he could still be productive, but that is not the kind of person he is.

who cares what kind of person he is? (not that im saying he is a bad guy i like him) but seriously….eddie murray, albert belle, reggie jackson, manny ramirez, rickey henderson have all been so called “bad guys”, but id take any of them at anytime in the history of the game. production counts not personality.

if none of the other GMs wanted frank, thats their problems…look whos laughing now!!

This weekend series will be fun!!! You can bury your head in the sand all you want, obviously you haven’t been watching this team the 2nd half of the season. Even a mere .500 record and we would be in playoffs right now. Very, very sad how underacheiving this team is.

Thome, even with 4 less rbis then Frank, has still been more productive. He’s been on base more, scored more runs, and driven in virtually the same number of runs. So why would you rather have Frank? Because he’s hot now, but every game counts the same, so it doesn’t matter when a player gets hot, all that matters are his numbers over the entire season, and Thome has better numbers through today.

If Frank Thomas was such a great guy and such a team player, than why did Kenny Williams rip him apart like he did? Can you EVER picture Kenny saying anything remotely close to that about Thome? Probably not, because Thome has class.

Ken, you say production counts, not personality, but then you ignore the fact that Thome has been more productive than Frank!


Thome leading in:







Frank leading in:

RBIs – by 3

So stop saying that production counts, because if you truly felt that way, then Thome would be the obvious choice.

Production and personality both count, and Thome is leading in both. There’s no argument for either.

I find it extremely fascinating that some ‘fans’ think Frank Thomas could fix what ails the White Sox.

Can Frank pitch out of the bullpen. No.

Can Frank play center field? Well…no.

Can Frank wake up a clubhouse with a laid back, ‘eh’ attitude? Ummmm….no.

Can Frank fix the poor decision making this year by Ozzie? (By the way read Phil Rogers column on this in the Tribune…) No again.

But that’s OK. Keep thinking the Sox should have picked up the option on Frank’s contract therefore having to pay him TEN MILLION DOLLARS when they didn’t even know for sure if he’d be able to play at all this season.

I’m sure glad those folks aren’t the G.M.

Mark Liptak

Must I remind all of you that the White Sox are still in this race. So stop the moaning and name calling and get behind them. Trust me this comes down the final weekend.

I don’t really understand the FThomas debate. What is done is done, and you can’t do anything about it. Frank is a great player and future HOF member but he is gone, so get over it. Hitting HRs has not been the problem this year. It all come down to PITCHING!! The Sox pitchers have been terrible except Garland and Jenks.

Weird, the Twins won again. Sox just need to win games and let Detorit and Minnesota choke it away.

P.S.-Scott Podsednik needs to go

**** you White Sox!! Die today already!!!! Bases loaded twice on one out and can’t score???!!! You guys SSSSSUUUUUUCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!

you just have to believe that our guys are pressing. caught stealing in the fifth then two straight hits and a walk before Joe strikes out and AJ pops out. we are having a TOUGH time manufacturing runs. still time left to pull it out, but it sure would go a long way if we could capitalize on a few of our opportunities. j.k. frustrated in tucson

With this loss, and although it is only the 6th inning, I am confident that it will be a loss, we can kiss the season goodbye.

We didn’t pitch well when we needed to, we didn’t hit when we needed to, and we flat out s*cked in pretty much the entire second half of the season.

For as much talent as this team has, they are amazingly bad.

I’ll still be watching the playoffs, as I love baseball more than any other sport, but it’ll be just another year like every year that wasn’t 05.

The Sox are no longer in this race because they have no sense of urgency and no fire and now it’s too late. They are playing flat because Ozzie has a ho hum attitude and that attitude permiates throughout the club house.

As Hawk would say, this season is ovah!

Yee of no faith!

I wish that I didn’t care as much as I do. Unfortunately, there is no cure for this love affair. You guys, once again broke our hearts. 2005 will not be rematched this year.******. Come back next year and play like you mean it. I’ll be here, like it or not. I love this team too much. But man, this year, you have tested me and the rest of us, and I am disappointed, hurt, and saddened. Long winter without warming up to a new DVD.

I can say a lot of things but I don’t want to come across badly embarassing myself so I’ll try to restrain myself.

First off what the Sox do in Oakland has gone beyond a statistical oddity, it is now a *******’ embarassment. An embarassment to the organization but more importantly an embarassment to the fans and the city of Chicago.

I am sick and tired EVERY **** season of looking at the schedule, seeing the games in Oakland, taking out my red pen and putting down a big L, months ahead of time.

This franchise goes into Oakland and they wet themselves, every **** time.

Regarding this season, to those optimists still out there I respect your right to be optimists and hope for a miracle.

Personally to me this season is DONE, it’s OVER. It was over when September came and they stunk the joint up in Kansas City and Boston. They have completely stunk in the month and it’s not going to change in the next ten days.

The loss after loss to garbage teams,the pitching staff blowing 12 GAMES where the Sox took a lead into the 7th inning or later, the ‘laid back’ attitude of the players the second half of the season while the fans are dying, and Ozzie’s awful decision making…go with the ‘gut’ or go with the stats, pick a side Ozzie!!!!!

I sincerely hope these guys, along with the manager, and coaching staff take a long hard look in the mirror this off season. THEY SCREWED IT UP…not the general manager, not the front office staff, not the fans, THEY DID. And they can live with it.

It’s absolutely sickening that the MINNESOTA TWINS are going to make the post season for the 4th time in the last five years….something this organization can only dream of doing.

I’m at a loss to say anything more. These guys turn my stomach.

Mark Liptak

Tom Quaid… if you’re out there, somewhere… HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! If only we could’ve given you a “W” (or two).

I am NOT ready for this season to be over, and I’m not saying it is, but I will admit it’s looking rather frightening right now. When you look at the schedules for the upcoming 2 weeks and pray for KC and Baltimore to get hot, well, you’re pretty much wishing for miracles. (Oh yeah, it would be nice for OUR guys to get hot, too.)

The season ends on October 1st, and I’ll hang it up then if I have to.

“There is something special about a pennant race.”

Scott – I hate to say this, but it doesn’t feel like much of a race when we can’t move foward.

I like to think I’ve been more optimistic than most about this season, but seeing a sweep in Oakland… well, I don’t know how they can do it at this point.

Mathematically, the Sox need to play something like .750 baseball over the final stretch in order to catch the Twins (provided that they Twins only play .500 baseball). I just don’t see it happening… and I wish I did. But – I guess I won’t offically give up until the math says its not even possible. I don’t mind being a little bit naieve.

WOW!! – Just watching this team blow 3 straight leads against the A’s makes me sick to my stomach. As I was listening to hawk today you could tell he has packed it in for the season. This was the most critical I have ever heard him be of this team. He continually called out the lack of situational hitting and pitching mental mistakes. With the wildcard magic number now 10 if this team doesn’t go at least 10-3 the rest of the way it is over. With Det/Min playing trash the rest of the way and those teams capable of beating bad teams my finger is officially on the panic button. The Sox have not made a run since the nine game winning streak in APRIL so i don’t expect them to start now. With that said I will be there Mon & Wed hoping these games actually mean something.

For those of you calling for Frank just give it up. He was owed $10 million this year. There was not a chance in **** that he would have renegotiated that number what so ever. With the Sox needing a left handed bat and Philly paying part of Thome’s salary this year the move makes sense. I didn’t see anyone calling for Frank when Thome was carrying the team the first half of the season and Frank was hitting .215. I understand Thome has pulled the disappearing act but lets give up the Frank chatter as it is only more frustrating to read as the team gets their rear ends handed to them again.

Please keep BA in the line-up till then end of the season. I will lose it if Mack is out in CF this week. BA does have a higher OBP than Uribe so if you want to sit one of your regulars – sit Uribe and play Cintron at SS (we all know that won’t happen though). If Ozzie insists on changing the line up let Ross Gload start in LF and lead off.

Sorry for the long post

Why is Thome still the DH? Let him sit a few games and play Gload. Or, move Thome down in the line up. He’s been ineffective at # 4 spot for a while now. Big deal. He can get walks. That’s about it lately. The team was winning when Paulie was DH and Gload at 1B. Let Gload DH for the Tigers Series.

I have noticed a lack of posting from the usual suspects. Could you all be crying in your coffee as I am. I don’t even know what to say. It is looking pretty grim and I am trying to keep a glimmer of hope, but everytime I get one, my heart is crushed the next day. iap210 I think I will throw things at the tv if Mack in in CF again. BA must have really ticked Ozzie off somehow. This is it gang. 3 against Detroit. It could be over by Wed night or Come down to Minny. Either way I’ve got the cardiologist on hold. Let there be a little magic left, please???

i will asume that i am one of the usual suspects who haven’t posted as much as earlier in the year. but, hey, we all know what’s happening and Mark has his finger on our team’s pulse for all of us. time was that playing ANY team was cause for concern,,,FOR THEM! but now it’s as if we are our own worst enemies. we can’t get a run in from third with less than two outs, we give up bloop singles, doubles to nobody hitters and then the franks of this league kill us and our hearts drop a little lower in our anatomies. used to be that WE were feared, but now WE are the ones who are afraid. we are pressing! how else to explain Joe’s tough times lately. i say play the guys who are loose and are producing. Pablo in left, BA in center for the rest of the year! Ross either at first or DH platooning with Paulie and Thome. use Cintron more and for heavens sake, pretend that the year is fresh and RUN. that was our game last year, and until the HR’s can really hurt someone, we need to manufacture runs. our starters are finally coming around, but you can’t expect them to throw 13 shut-outs in a row. that’s just about what we need right now. as someone said above, it may be all over after wed. we DON’T want it to be, but what has it looked like? lately? in other words, when you’re hot you’re hot and when you’re not, you’re not. unfortunately right now we’re one of the nots. j.k. awaiting a miracle in tucson. ( interestingly my yankee friend said today not to give up, but what does he know? he’s used to winning and we’re not at that mantality yet. maybe next year?) i do predict that we will come around before the end of the year and put together a winnig streak, but i’m afraid it will be just a bit late. j.k.

one other thing while i’ve got your attention. is it me or do you also agree that our team started it’s personality complex about the time that Buehrle was told not to slide on the tarp during rain delays in mid May. the fun went out of our guys and what with Ozzies sensitivity training, we can’t beat anybody except the national league. “don’t” look like we’ll make it to their league until next year, but like the rest of you i say go Sox…. beat up on Detroit. but this time let’s just concentrate on winning ONE game. if we do, then we can worry about the second game and so on. all we got folks…. j.k. it’s time for dinner in the Old Pueblo. ( a nickname for tucson).

today i was thinking of the days back around may-june. when hawk would tell us that this team was playing .650 ball… and we were underachieving. we hadn’t hit our stride or rhythm yet. remember that? that when we started firing on all cylinders it would just be awesome.

i miss those days… before we hit our rhythm.

im about packing it up… im not wasting any more time watching this kind of thing. if theyre still in for the twins series ill turn it back on, and of course ill keep track of what they do day to day. but spending hours each day talking(screaming?) to no one and shaking my head just can’t be healthy.

All I can say after today is: GO BEARS!!!

Yeah, obrnmac, I consider myself a regular poster, but lately, you’ve got it right. I just can’t seem to get up enough energy to post loss after loss. I’m still reading everyones doom and gloom posts and I’m right there with them. But there’s only so much you can say about a team that’s played as bad as ours. And I don’t usually have anything to add except for swear words and those just get blanked out anyways. But maybe we’ll make a run at it. but I’m not counting on it, obviously.


Could you kindly get the front office to release next year’s tentative schedule, as some other clubs have?

Some of us want to move on. . .

the fact that big frank is the guy to bury us is letting me take this a little bit better than i thought. i just love that he got the last laugh over williams, guillen and all of the tools that run the sox. that a boy big man!!!!

Indeed obrnmac, it’s hard to post while watching such uninspired baseball. Just ask Reifert; you know it’s a bad week when single posts are running near 100 hits. If you aint got nothing good to say…

And I really don’t have anything good to say, in all reality what’s really left to say? We’re all watching the same train wreck day after day in slow motion. It’s gotten to the point where like kolsens I just want to focus on 2007 and the changes we need to make to ensure that a sorry bunch of heartless, underachieving, seldom-performing ******** like this 2006 incarnation doesn’t ever represent this organization collectively again. It’s an embarassment for a team with so much at stake to have already of packed it in. Fans will accept losing, we’ll except high ticket prices, **** we’ll even accept disrespect time after time at the hands of our biggest rival. What we refuse to except though is the pathetic effort, the undisciplined approaches, the Little League mental mistakes, and the general malaise that’s surrounded this team since the All-Star break. That’s as unacceptable as it is humiliating.

Have I given up on this season? No, I’m a glutton for punishment. But what does that matter when it seems most of the players (who actually effect the outcome of the game) already have. I hope for drastic changes this offseason and I hope nobody’s exempt. Any way enough of my rant.

By the way, Happy belated Birthday Tom Quaid. I hope that debacle at Oakland didn’t tarnish your day.

Klein, you are sounding awfully dreiferian, no? After this weekend, I would say that realism has unfortunately SHMOTTERED optimism by a landslide. Haven’t seen TomQ post since before game 2 of the sweep. Nothing positive to add, I’m afraid. I guess that’s why Scott has disappeared since the season, er, series was handed over to our opponents.

Well, looking at the bright side….sorry, I got nothing!! The only Repeat we will “enjoy” is a Repeat of our sad history, pre-2005.

Grinder Rule 2006: Every opportunity to win is a chance to **** yourself.

Hey mark….Congrats….you made it to Richard Roeper’s column today. No, I don’t purchase ththe some-times…but my co-worker usually has one that she leaves for the rest of us minions to browse thru throughout the day…and since Richard is a Sox fan too i have no problem reading his column when the oppurtunity presents itself.. So, again congratulations…and page 11 no less, how nice.

My heart went out to Derrick Lee last night. I don’t care if he DOES play for the Scrubs…I wouldn’t wish that kind of heartache on any other human in this world. I will be praying for him and his family.

How ’bout Dem BEARS!!!!!!


BTW, I don’t care what a great personality Jim Thome has…we don’t need a guy with a great personality out there as our DH…we need a BEAST…as promised….But, I’m sorry…he and Paulie…our big money makers are just NOT gettin it done and I’m tired of watching this team constantly underachieve!!! Especially when i KNOW what they are capable of!!!!

Forgive me…but Frank Thomas…Comeback Player of the Year!!!

In regards to my last post….Call me atraitor if you must…but I am so sick and tired of watching them lose like this blowing opportunity after opportunity.

I’m sure I’ll get over by 7:00 p.m tonight though…enough to sit and pray through another game.


If any of you have missed it you may want to read Chris DeLuca’s story in the Sun-Times today.


‘Hawk’ goes off on this club.

Also interesting is the comment by DeLuca (and where he got this information I don’t know– perhaps it’s just his impressions watching these guys) is that some players “for months” have been planning their off-season and commenting about how they “want the season to end.”

If true that is VERY VERY revealing. Also if true Kenny should ship them out of town as fast as possible, I don’t care if he has to give them away.

I wonder who those players could be?

Mark Liptak

Give it up with the Frank Thomas ****. Offensively, the Sox just don’t miss him. Aside from the fact that Thome’s numbers compare favorably to Thomas’ across the board, Jermaine Dye has busted his *** to an MVP-caliber season. The A’s will go to the post-season, lose in the first round, and Thomas’ season will have meant virtually nothing. Then, they (or another team)will bring him back next year (at a considerably higher price) and he’ll get hurt in the first month and hardly play, and pi$$ and moan the entire season about one thing or another. The Thomas-backers on this board have awfully short memories to not remember what a clubhouse lawyer this guy was.

Reality check: the Sox have underachieved at epic levels this year. The pitching has by far been the biggest disappointment. As inept as the “small-ball” has been this year, if the pitchers had pulled their weight, the Sox would be cruising right now, and we’d be saying “wow, the Big Hurt’s having a nice year, but the Sox are the team to beat.” We can’t say that.

As brutal as this season has become for the Sox, they still have ONE MORE CHANCE for redemption against the Tigers. They’ve swept the kitties twice this year. IF (and it’s a BIG IF) they sweep the Tigers, they’ll have a snowball’s chance. Oddly, the most realistic scenario for the Sox to make the post-season would be the Twins winning the division and the Sox grabbing the wild card, with the Tigers being left out. I know, I know, it’s a longshot. Believe me, I know that, so please don’t bombard me with criticism for not being realistic. I’ve posted plenty of negative, “doomsday” material on this board about the Sox’ chances. When the smoke clears, however, I’d like to be able to say that I hung with ’em ’til the end, even if it’s off a cliff.

frank thomas has come up with HUGE HITS FOR OAKLAND…ITS NOT WHAT YOU HIT IT IS WHEN YOU HIT IT…HE HITS IT AT THE BEST TIMES. PUT A FORK IN THE SOX THEY ARE DONE. you say thomas will make the playoffs and get swept in the first round….at least he made it!! go oakland!!!!

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