Thursday Night Lights

Thursday, June 28, 2007

Tonight’s Lineup

Pods, LF; Gonzo, RF; Thome, DH; PK, 1B; AJ, C; Iguchi, 2B; Fields, 3B; Terrero, CF; Uribe, SS.  Javier pitching.

Amazing how three victories can change your mood, isn’t it?

Nice Moment

Walking up to lunch this week (lunch is served upstairs in the Bard’s Room each day for those who choose to dine in), I ran into a bunch of kids in the Gate 4 Reception lobby.  The World Series trophy was sitting out on one of the small tables and the kids were all around it, touching it, feeling it.

This is unusual, so I stopped and thought, "what in the world?’

Well, Julie Taylor, our terrific director of guest services, was leading a tour.  It’s a tour she’s done now for something like seven years.  All of the kids are sight impaired in some way, so what I stubbled on were these kids feeling the World Series trophy because they couldn’t actually see it!  Talk about a heart-touching moment.

Julie told me the tour is something else.  The kids run the bases and even take batting practice if they can.  She told me of one kid with partial sight who lined a clean single into left-field.

Then she told me the best part of the story …  To show their appreciation of Julie and the annual tour, the group had raised money — dollars, quarters, dimes, whatever — to purchase a legacy brick to commemorate their trips to the ballpark to experience, through all their senses, a major league park.

So the moral of that story is … anytime you think the frustration, disappointment (so far in 2007), angry calls from fans and media criticism start to wear you down, something is going to happen at the ballpark to remind you of the greatness of the human spirit and how baseball can make a difference in the lives of our fans.

And it will be enough to make you stop in the lobby and smile on your way to lunch.

Go Sox.


I’ve met and talked to Julie and she is a very nice person. The fact that she does this tour to help out these kids is amazing. What a great person to have on your team. Truly a Gem.


What a great story! I don’t know if Julie was the one, but my entire family–brother, sister and their families along with cousins–took a tour of the field and I gotta tell you first it is so worth the money and the tour guide could not have been nicer! If any of you haven’t done it and are looking for something to do the money goes to Sox charities and the thrill of sitting in the dugout, being in the press box, seeing the office is so worth the trip. You guys run a good show, Scott. My kids, ok and myself as well, loved it and still talk about it!! Can’t go without saying congrats to big Frank, future hall of famer!!

A win tonight would ne nice regardless of the standings. It would out first series sweep since 8/11 – 8/13 2006 against Detroit and the first regular season 4 game sweep since 9/1 – 9/4 2005 against Detroit as well. Not including some sweep I seem to remember from October 2005.

I too have met Julie when my father threw out the first pitch a year before his passing. Little did she know at the time what an amazing thing she had done for our family by reading my letter, etc. Glad to know she’s still making lives happy! We’re also in the process of buying a brick in memory of my dad and our time when we placed his ashes behind home plate. GO GO SOX!

He’s loved by everyone in the organization and is seen as the face of the White Sox. Any fan of this team can look at our history and clearly see how as Mark Buehrle rose in prominence, so did the White Sox. The man was our Opening Day starter every year from 2002-2006, and he should have been this year (no offense, Jose). He pitches well over 200 innings every year and wins at least 10 games. He set a record for going into at least the 6th inning for 49 straight starts, and the only reason he lost the streak was because he got ejected for hitting a batter on a bull **** call. He entertained fans every rain delay by sliding onto the tarp and politicked for Podsednik and A.J. to get to the All-Star game. He brought us home a World Series and the first no-hitter in quite some time, and even if this season has become a losing battle the White Sox would lose the war if they let Buehrle go.

So for the love of this team, please do whatever it takes to KEEP BUEHRLE!!!

The Sox must keep BUEHRLE!!!!! I will be very upset if he is not given a new contract. Congrats to the Big Hurt. I hope he goes into the HOF as a White Sox player.

Scott Merkin of White Sox.con has a story that says Rick Hahn is now back in Chicago.

No one…not Mark, Rick or Mark’s agent is saying anything.

Stay tuned, hold your breath, cross your fingers.

Mark Liptak

4 in a row! looking good. more andy gonzalez and luis terrero less rob mackowiak is the key to success! maybe there is still a run left in the sox? dont make any moves yet Kenny you tool.

congratulations to my guy the big hurt frank thomas on his 500th homer! to bad it couldnt be with the white sox but our arrogant GM thought that thomas was done. i guess thats not the case kenny. Frank is a first ballot HOF’er. i think he could possibly get up to 550 homers. Heres to the big man!

Yeah congrats to Frank for his milestone. I am not a big fan of Frank as a person, but he was such a great player for us. Too bad it could not have happened as a White Sox, but after 2 injury plagued seasons it was a risk the team had to take and lost unfortunately.

He is definitely going to the Hall of Fame, and I hope the voters get him in on the first ballot because he did this clean and not having to cheat with steroids. They may use him as an example of how the HOF voters will treat a clean player.

Craig Biggio also got his 3000th hit tonight. Funny thing was though he got thrown out by quite a bit trying to stretch it to a double. And of course Frank gets tossed in the 9th today arguing a called strike three. Kinda strange occurences considering their milestones.

Been a white sox fan all my life, but the game and the team is bigger than individuals in it and on each team respectively. My perspective is that the main reason this team lacked energy was some much distracted thought about money free agency, mark, dye, crede, now garland talking about it. that really gripes me, play some baseball, they already have enough money for a life time. that is why I am for cleaning house and getting gets that at least at first just want to play the game. I think kenny got too caught up in knowing each player and did not pull the trigger this past off season and before now, to me that would have been best for the white sox, as an ongoing team. they are all nice guys and so would the guys coming in be nice guys if you do your home work, too much about money.

How about putting Julie Taylor in the White Sox HOF, along with Christine O’Reilly and a lot of the others who have made dealing with this ballclub an absolute pleasure over the past few years?
(BTW, Reifert is a STONE COLD LOCK for that HOF…and that’s no brown-nosing on my part…just the truth…)

With Frank hitting number 500, and Biggio getting hit 3000 on the same day…my mind goes back to the day when Tom Seaver won his 300th game in a WS uniform in the Bronx… and Rodney Cline Carew got his 3000th hit as a member of the California Angels…Both of them are enshrined in Cooperstown, are deservedly so… I think that eventually Thomas and Biggio SHOULD get there… but, as usual, it’s up to the voters…those lovable bunch of chuckleheads known as the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America…the same group who kept Nelson Fox away until it took the veterans committee(with or without Al Lopez’s vote)to put him in posthumously…

So don’t go making plane reservations to Upstate New York for anytime in the summer of 2015 or 2020 for the induction ceremonies for The Big Hurt or Bigg…

P.S.: I thought it was up to the HOF to determine whose hat goes on the plaque…

Correct me, please, if I’m wrong…

There is 1 HUGE flaw in your argument. Kenny traded away Aaron Rowand. He was Kenny’s prototype “grinder” whom Kenny loved having on his team. He traded Aaron because he thought he was making the team better.


I think they ask for the players’ input on choice of hat, however it is the final decision of the HOF.

KR (and others):

After the Wade Boggs fiasco where apparently he was negotiating with the Devil Rays to wear their hat on his HOF plaque, the hall stepped in and said they would decide what hat goes on the plaque of the newly inducted individuals.

Frank will go in as a White Sox due to his career numbers and years with the club.

Someone like Goose Gossage who spent five years on the South Side will go in as a Yankee because his greatest accomplishments came in their uniform.

Mark Liptak

Here’s the info right from the HOF website:

Who decides what team logo will be used on induction plaques?

The choice of which team’s logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum’s decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history museum and as such, it’s important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player’s career. A player’s election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark. Visit our Hall of Fame plaque section to see the plaques of your favorite Hall of Fame members.

You know why those guys in AAA or the non big money players are hungry? Because they know if they get a chance to perform they too can earn a big money contract. Do seriously not believe that 99.9% of these players are in it for the money. Baseball and all sports are about money. Maybe when you were growing up and playing it was about the love of the game. But with the money out there to be made that is the goal today. Why do you think these guys have been using steroids, because they want to win? No because they want huge stats because that leads to a huge bank account. Say what you want, but if you are going to contend year in and year out you must spend money on veteran players to mix in with the guys that come up through your farm system.

rough game tonight. i credit it to the sox playing mackowiak, that cancer. hopefully kenny deals him before they return home. i also think ozzie shoulda yanked jose before it got out of hand in the 7th. oh well. lets battle 2marrow

Now THAT’S the bullpen that we’ve all come to know and love!

Gee I hope they can avoid falling into the cellar this weekend.

Think about that one friends and neighbors, I’d have laughed my head off had anyone been crazy enough to make that statement back in spring training.

Looks like the joke’s on me.

Mark Liptak

Also I am beginning to hear reports that in Saturday’s Sun-Times, Joe Cowley, the man who just a few days ago swore that the Sox and Buehrle were about to make a deal, is going to report that Mark and his agent have REJECTED the Sox offer of four years / 56 million and that Kenny has resumed shopping him to the Dodgers and Mets.

We’ll see if this is factual.

Mark Liptak

I am not a big Mackowiak fan, but Kenwo please check the box score before you type something. In case you had not noticed, and apparently you did not, the “cancer” had two of the five Sox hits tonight and a walk to go with it. Yeah I’m sure he was the reason that nobody decided to hit, and that Ozzie did not get Contreras out early enough, and when Aardsma was warming up in the bullpen he said “Oh Mack is in the lineup tonight I gotta go out there and give up a few.” Give me a break!

Is it true that the problem with the contract is a no-trade clause that the Sox do not want to include and Buehrle wants in the contract?

I think I love Faustino De Los Santos more than Gio now.

Well I got my answer:,CST-SPT-buehrle30.article

You know the Sox did not want to include that no trade clause because even had he signed the 4 year $56 mil deal they were still gonna shop him. At that price he is even more attractive and might get the Sox more in return in a trade. That is $2-3 mil a year less than he will get in free agency so teams looking to trade would take that into account. Mark and his agent were smart and knew that, and it looks like the Sox are gonna blow this and they will face the music if they do.

With starting pitching being the commodity it is, and you have a proven winner who gives you 230 innings a year that wants to play for you, there has to be concessions made.

i knew he had two hits. i dont care. the guy is brutal. i dont care if he had 5 hits with 4 homers. he is still a cancer and should have never been brought to this team. that in my opinion was one of the worst trades in franchise history. now i read the sox arent going to include a no trade clause? why? this organization is pathetic. they run out their best players left and right. are we the f’ing expos? thomas, buehrle, lee, rowand, ordonez…gee these guys played well for us…lets get rid of them! the worst thing about it is they decided that the guy they would keep is Konerko? come on now! he has been the least consistant of all of them. every other year he has a bad year or at least a bad start. thats the guy that should have been gone. i dont see why they wont pick up roberto hernandez. he is better than the garbage they currently have. oh i forgot, he also had success on the south side in the past. god forbid bringing him back. Kenny and Ozzie’s egos are so big they dont want anyone around that is more popular than they are. those are the two along with mackowiak that can jump out of the plane on the way back from K.C.

I cannot believe that the Sox would demand a significant home town discount and then refuse a no-trade clause. Why allow all of that false hope to be spread in the media about the possibility of an extension without being willing to concede what should logically be a part of any home-town discount deal? Why on earth would management expect Buehrle to give up millions of dollars for the sake of playing in Chicago without guaranteeing that he’d actually be staying here? If this information is accurate, it doesn’t seem as if they ever seriously intended to keep him. This is so disappointing. The Sox seem to have hit upon a novel way to take what was already a depressing season and make it gut-wrenchingly miserable for their fans.

i wonder what the excuse is going to be when Garland is up next year? he wont be back either. good luck trying to replace buehrle and garland. the stands will be as empty as the devil rays stands were. good then i can sit in the front row and yell at ozzie all day it will be fun.

gee maybe we can replace them with Todd Ritchie or David Wells, Kenny. Maybe they are still available. how about Gavin Floyd or Roberto Alomar? Maybe bringing in Jim Thome is the answer. He will hit plenty of homers when we have a 5 run lead! Mackowiak! thats the man. bring him in to play center field! He is so awful. Ron Schuler or however you spelled his name was a better F’ing GM. at least he brought in Valentin, Belle, and the organization had some decent minor leaguers to come up like ordonez, lee, garland , buehrle. kenny is nothing but an arrogant *******

seriously, I think kenny is just too nice a guy, always worrying about being fair in trades, and up front and respecting the players, but man a gm needs to be more impersonal forget about personality when building and keeping a club going, not forgetting work habits and getting along personality of people that you sign or trade for , but you cannot worry about trading guys and be an effective gm. he seems torn even said that, I would like to see him more professional just looking at talent, with help, and focus on the team.

I really think we blew it by not trading mark to boston, or in the off season.

Hey now, what’s up with the mackowiak bashing? I must be missing something because i think he’s great!

Fingers crossed something can be worked out with Buerhle – i would HATE to see him go!

you think he’s great because you are mentally challanged. He cost us 2006 because he couldnt catch the ball in center field and in 2007 he is playing way way way way way too much. his production at the plate is awful. he has just been a terrible player ever since the white sox aquired him. how many times do they put him up to pinch hit and he swings at a pitch in the right handers batters box? i will not rest until he is shipped out of town!

Somewhere in my heart I’m thinking that as Mark takes the mound Monday (which I will be there) they will anounce he signed a contract and all this talk of dead deals was planted to surprise us all Monday and make his Monday start more dramatic. Could this be possible?? Wouldn’t it be a great start to a homestand? Just a thought…


After working the phones late last night I was just to depressed to return until today. Sorry about that.

I don’t know what to say. Mark is giving a hometown discount and giving up an extra year that he’ll almost certainly get somewhere else.

I mean how much more is he expected to give?

I don’t think a franchise as valuable as the White Sox (and some of my sources know those who have an ownership stake) are going to be destroyed or held hostage if they give one player a no trade clause regardless of how much they are paying him.

Reality says these are the CHICAGO White Sox…not the Brewers, Royals and Devil Rays who play in a small market.

Be that as it may, as Kenny says, ‘it is what it is.’

This will all end soon enough one way or another.

I’m reminded of something Rich Lindberg told me one time in an interview.

Rich was the team’s ‘official’ historian during Bill Veeck’s second term as owner and was also on board during the early days of the current ownership. He’s written four or five books on the Sox including the Total White Sox Encyclopedia.

I’m paraphrasing here…’ownerships don’t last forever.’

Sooner or later there will be a changing of the guard at the top levels. It’s a fact of life.

All we can do is hope that in some ways the philosophy, style, media relations, player relations is done differently.

It does no one any good to see the difficulty, bitterness and bad publicity that the team (for the most part) had gotten whenever they can’t agree on deals with popular players.

There has to be a better way don’t you think?

From Chet Lemon to Carlton Fisk. From Jack McDowell to Wilson Alvarez. From Alex Fernandez to Robin Ventura. From Magglio Ordonez to Carlos Lee…it always seems these things get messy and ugly and in my opinion it doesn’t always have to fall into that trap.

Paul Konerko’s dealings were the textbook way of how it should be done even if said player doesn’t return.

Mark Liptak

Four wins in a row,and I was feeling much better…
One lousy performance later…

I am back in the “Silver and Black Funk”(yes,,I MEANT “funk”)…

I don’t know, do I, or should I,take this stuff TOO seriously ?… It just upsets me so when things seem to be going swimmingly for that other team in town, and the boys are floundering and falling rapidly…

Tell me,White Sox Universe…

BTW,Brother Liptak, I had the opportunity to meet Rich Lindberg at the end of May…

He and I found out that we have a great deal in common,

specifically a great dislike for a beloved icon broadcaster who used to work on the South Side before going North (guess who? HOLY COW !!!)and a mutual dislike for a former beloved owner of the South Side franchise who, as an owner, was a great promoter but didn’t want to play the game the way it was done from 1976-1981…instead opting to do it the way he did in the ’40’s and ’50’s…

But that’s another rant for another time…

No problem Mark, after I read what you wrote I was waiting for the Sun Times website to updadte last night to see what Joe Cowley wrote.

When I heard Bruce Levine report yesterday that the holdup could be the no trade clause I figured the chance of him signing was pretty much dead. All they were gonna do was sign him at a discount price to make the deal more attractive to the teams making trade offers. Just imagine how Sox fans would have reacted to that. I know there are some people out there that don’t like Buerhle, but I would bet over 95% of Sox fans want him signed here. If they signed him and then traded him a few days later KW would never be able to show his face again. I know it is the way the business works, but a lot of Sox fans would have been disgusted by that. You don’t treat a guy like a Mark Buerhle like that. Not after all he has done, and how he represents this organization.

This is really pi$$ing me off!! We are going to lose our best pitcher because of a no trade clause. Ozzie said, “He might not be the same. He might be worse or better, but somebody will take his spot. Hopefully, it all works out, but I just throw this thing away.” F*** You Ozzie and Kenny!!

A White Sox team without Mark Buehrle makes me feel much much less interested. I have a feeling I’m not alone.


Here’s a little more information that may help to explain what’s going on.

Take it with a grain of salt. Also I’m not taking sides in this matter just stating what I’ve been told.

In essence this entire deal hinges on a ‘no-trade’ clause for one year.

That’s right, one season!

The Sox recent history has shown that they have been willing to give either a full or partial ‘no-trade’ clause in the first year of a new deal for a pitcher. They did it with Contreras, they did it with Garland and they did it with Vazquez.

The assumption is strong they’d be willing to do it for Mark. So that takes out the first season.

In season three and four of the deal, Mark becomes a 10/5 man, meaning he’s been in the major leagues for ten years, the last five with the same club. That means for all practical purposes, Mark has gained a full ‘no-trade’ status. He can not be traded anyplace without his specific agreement. So that takes out the final two seasons of the deal.

It all comes down to year two, where the Sox could deal Mark wheverever they want.

And it’s easy to see a scenario where this could happen and I’m sure Mark and his agent see it as well.

Say in 2008 things don’t go well for the team. Perhaps they trade Garland or Crede or both at the deadline rather then lose them as free agents and get nothing.

2009 doesn’t start off promising either and the decision is made to go into a full rebuilding mode. Think ‘the kids can play III.’

Here’s Mark, making 14 or 15 million a year, signed for two more years and could bring back a fortune in prospects. The Sox naturally would be fools not to try to move him under this scenario.

That’s what Mark is concerned about.

That’s what this all comes down to for better or worse.

Because the future looks a lot less ‘promising’ in the next two or three years then it did 20 months ago, the Sox when all is said and done, could lose an anchor to the pitching staff.

Then they have to ‘hope’ the kid pitchers can actually pitch (and history has shown that to be an issue for the organization over the past 10-15 years) or they have to bite the bullett and sign a pitcher probably not as good as Mark for more money because the market for pitchers probably isn’t going down regardless of what Kenny thinks (or hopes.)

Mark Liptak

this whole mess occurred because it was not anticipated in the off season, it seemed pretty obvious to me, does not take a rocket scientist to now mark did not sign earlier why later, the need to be proactive to get the best deal at the right time has been lost, over and over, I do not like or dislike mark b. I enjoy the game as a form of artistry the personalities can be fun but are secondary.


Are they really that stupid, to blow this whole deal over a something so petty?

This is incredibly troubling.

And if this is the way the Brass runs the team, well then maybe it’s time for some of us to re-evaluate where and how we spend our hard-earned money.


Given the potential scenario that I laid out, I wouldn’t call it ‘petty.’ There’s a lot of money at stake and a potential franchise direction coming into play.

Like it or not, right or wrong, the Sox have a particular way of doing business. It has led to some success, more so in the past few years.

Whether 2005 was a fluke year, much like 2000 because the Sox can’t string together post seasons playoff appearances remains to be seen.

Personally I have often disagreed with the perceived antagonistic, ‘my way or the highway’ style to the Sox negotiating tactics.

Great players, franchise favorites demand and deserve ‘special’ priviledges, but then again, I’m not in charge in the purse strings.

What I do know is that the Sox seem to be squandering the positive vibes, good will, additional income and tremendous interest generated by the World Series crown faster the George Bush did in the political arena after the 2004 election.

And before anyone says anything, I’m a moderate Republican myself!

Mark Liptak

“The perceived antagonistic, ‘my way or the highway’ style to the Sox negotiating tactics.”

Well said. And I guess that is what cheeses me off about this. This isn’t a real estate deal.

If Mark Buehrle is special enough to waive the “no deals for pitchers beyond three years” rule, then isn’t he special enough to not let a no-trade clause be a deal breaker?

and a White Sox winner!. congrats to John Danks for an outstanding pitching performance, he deserved to win the game and i think he is definitally a keeper.. nice hit by AJ in the 10th to start things off. count KC as another town where our catcher will be booed. just a quick hello from the land of warmth ( it should reach 112 by tues.) i think summer is here. but then the hummidity is only 6% except on the golf course where it’s about 15…. j.k. out for now, but i thought you all would be glad to know i’m still among the living…..

P.S. count me as a member of the sign Mark fan club…..

good win..nice shot by iguchi. too bad he will be another player let go of within the month. i think the way the sox do business is terrible. they run off any and every fan favorite except for konerko (who i dont care for) and the ONLY reason they signed him was because they were forced to do it after a world series victory. id bet my last dollar that if he was a free agent last year he would have been playing for the angels or orioles. dye is as good as gone for his recent comments, garland will be eventually gone for his comments…i dont understand why kenny isnt gone for his arrogant comments? he’s the biggest piece of trash in chicago. he’s run off star player after star player. he will do the same when josh fields gets 5 years in and Danks. the sox have probably the worst reputation with star players than anyone. its a shame.

God I hope the management and brass of the Chicago White Sox understand one thing very clearly. If the deal with mark beuhrle TRULY dies because they won’t include a no trade clause, a good percentage of fans are going to be pissed. Season ticket holders are going to be rethinking their own commitment to the Sox when they can’t commit to one of OUR own. That new Sox hat or shirt or jacket isn’t going to be such a good idea and we’re not going to go out and buy a bunch of Gavin Floyd jerseys to replace our closet full of Beuhrles

Did anyone notice:

1. That Andy Gonzales couldn’t get a bunt down in the 10th inning last night? Iguchi ‘saved’ him by the two out hit. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

2. Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times in his Buehrle update story Sunday apparently doesn’t care for one of the Sox front office types (it appears to be Scott) nor the folks who post on Scott’s blog.

Feel free to read the story and make your own judgements.

Mark Liptak

The comments Cowley made were out of line and didn’t add anything to his always lack-luster story he puts out. I do admit though I kinda chuckled at the Cabana Boy statement. hehe

So I guess Joe Cowley will not be the guest speaker at bloggers night. Probably good thing for him because he should not be seen hanging around with a bunch of trekkies. Sorry Joe, can’t say I have ever seen an episode of Star Trek, and I only collect autographs of players that I watched as a kid. Normally I look forward to the information and game recaps that Mr. Cowley puts forth, but those comments about Scott and the people who use his site were just dumb.

I do not mind the white sox philosphy of doing business, in fact I like it. But I hate their execution, if you have the modus O. that they seem to have , you need to be proactive and get the best deals to keep young talent coming in, and they sure are not proactive to their advantage


Apparently Scot Gregor of the Daily Herald today has the first direct comments from Kenny on the Buehrle situation and the no trade clause issue.

Basically he says he will not give in to the request because he could not build a championship team down the road if Mark had one and that apparently some are concerned that if Mark gets a no trade clause a precedent will have been set that the Sox want to avoid.

I’m not quite sure what the comment about building a championship down the road means unless it’s a reference to the Sox wanting to trade Mark if they have to go into a full rebuilding mode and he vetos a deal for prospects and such.

I do know this….pitching wins pennants a la 2005 and not having Mark means you have to replace him somehow. The Sox apparently feel based on their comments, that they can’t afford, or do not wish to deal with the current market price for free agent pitchers, and the minor league track record of developing pitchers has been spotty at best for at least ten years.

So I don’t know where the pitching is going to come from. Do you?

Mark Liptak

This Buehrle saga is the most sickening thing I have seen being a White Sox fan. The fact that from newspaper reports we are not going to sign him because of a no-trade clause he wants in his contract is ridiculous. I see both sides of the issue but this is a 200+ inning starter for six years posting a high 3 ERA. If “Gavio Flonzalez” even come close to that I’d be incredibly happy. It seems like the Sox brass think these pitchers come around all the time. Not Garland’s and Buehrle’s aren’t growing on trees. These guys are special and yet we are going to be losing one of them to a disagreement in a NTC, unfingbelieveable.

-Brett Farrenkopf

I wanted to address two issues separately so that they may both receive due consideration.

First off regarding Joe Cowley’s remarks today.

I myself have had a difference of opinion with Joe (I say that from a personal standpoint.) and I’d like to leave it at that.

My point is that I don’t understand what Joe and some other media members want folks like Scott Reifert, Roland Hemond, Dave Wilder, Bob Grim and so forth to say.

I mean let’s get real here…how long do you think a Joe Cowley would be working at the Sun-Times if he started coming out in stories saying how bad management at that newspaper is?

Yet apparently he seems to be willing to rip folks like Reifert for not doing the same. (Cabana boy???)

Makes absolutely NO sense to me, none at all.

These folks are employees of the White Sox, paid by the White Sox in part for their loyalty, many have kids and families.

Yet the Joe Cowley’s of the world want them to cut their own throats by knocking management. (I always thought that was the fans job? LOL)

I’ll give far more creedence to Joe on this point when he starts talking about the circulation issues at the Sun-Times and the charges that they padded figures to charge higher advertising rates.

Now on to point two.

Maybe this is just me, maybe I’m making something out of nothing (feel free to tell me so if I am…) but I detect a subtle change in Kenny from this past off season and that’s reflected in his comments.

Remember this winter where Kenny often made comments along the lines of, ‘we’re here to contend both in 2007 and down the road.’ These were said a lot after the Garcia and McCarthy deals.

Kenny also said (to his credit!) “when I feel we can’t contend, believe me, you guys (the media) will be the first to know…”

OK keep that in the back of your mind.

Now read this comment via e-mail to Scot Gregor of the Daily Herald Sunday.

“I cannot build a championship team if I do (give a no trade option to Buehrle.)”

Does anyone else catch the difference?

This winter Kenny was talking about ‘contending now and in the future’…now he’s talking about “building a championship team.”

Mmmmm….couple this comment with his recent decision to change over the director of scouting and development and I think Kenny is coming to the hard realization that the holes on the big league roster coupled with the shortages in the minor leagues are now a real, real problem with the Sox and that it doesn’t appear likely they’ll be doing anything in the near future. To me he’s beginning to act on that realization.

Now this could change I guess if the Sox decide to change some of their fiscal policies and policies towards players represented by Scott Boras and the current market value of pitchers, but honestly, I don’t see that happening.

Again maybe it’s just me.

Mark Liptak

I would agree, and you could see it coming when we struggled out of the gates this year. He does make it sound like the short term goals have been scrapped and the backup plan for long term goals is going into place. It almost sounds like Kenny had it set in his mind that if we did not play great in April and May like we did in 2005 and 2006 that they were going to shift the focus to the long term.

The fact that I am a Chicago sports fan and have to think about a franchises long term goals make me sick. When I hear long term I think lots of losses, ala the Post-Jordan era Bulls. We are a large market and should be a destination for higher caliber players. Players want to be here becuase of the extra money they can make in more commercials and stuff like that. If this team does not decide to change some philosophies and spend the money to compete the long term plan is gonna be ugly unless you like the empty ballpark.

Wait just a dadgum minute.

Cowley references “Tango and Cash” with a straight face, yet disparages bloggers as geeks?

Anyone know how hurt Pods is. I read on Yahoo today that he strained a rib muscle in the top of the first in yesterdays game. They said there is no indication how serious the injury actually is but I was wondering if anyone else has heard anything.

Oops of todays game not yesterdays. Sorry

Oops of todays game not yesterdays. Sorry

we are a team that desperately needs rebuilding, crede, erstad, jim t. and pods injury prone, Iguchi, Dye, Mark, free agents to be , Crede? and coming free agent, come on , we are slow, bad situational hitters, and bad players esp. shortstop. But missed the main chance over and over 3 top young players from boston, come on we need them, noone in the farm system except possibly a few pitchers. we need to trade get some young players , dump the salary try the young players second half and see what we need to add , in free agents this winter to contend next year.

That’s a great story, Scott! Many people don’t see that that kind of thing goes on at the ballpark, but it does and it is indeed always touching to hear about. Thanks for sharing that story with us!
(Go Sox)

Cowley is a complete ego , idiot that does not deserve to be a sport writer, he thinks only his opinion deserves to be stated, how pathetic

A White Sox winner, take that Liptak!

Not to defend Joe Cowley’s statement, but he does not normally give opinions. He is considered a reporter. He is paid to give game reports and report on team news like injuries and player movement. It is rare that he would make a statement like that. Opinions come from columnists such as Marriotti or Telander.

well jimd some people just like to jump on you when you are down, coward, bully mentality, notice he says white sox will not be good for yrs, he hopes it seems, but not necessarily true

Like I said, it is rare he expresses an opinion in his writings. After re-reading his column online I don’t see anything about Cowley stating the Sox will not be good for years. I’m not sure where you are getting those comments from.

I’m pretty sure he is a frustrated writer after all that has gone on this week. As a fan it seemed like every day the story they were giving him changed. Imagine being at work and your boss gives you a task to complete, but changes the instructions every day. That is what this last week has been like, and there is almost always this kind of turbulence when the Sox have to negotiate with an important player.

The man with the big ego is Kenny Williams. He was a below average player, and it seems to me that he now wants to take his position of power and take it out on the good players, ie: Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee (not necessarily the trade, but the way they viewed him and his abilities) and now Mark Buehrle. It’s a trend that I don’t like.

well he cowley said it just read it again, blah blah, not nearly talented enough , not now, not in years to come. and seems to say it with much satisfaction,


And your point is what exactly?

The Sox won A GAME….is that supposed to mean something when they are 13 games out?

Just wondering what the point is, unless you subscribe to the idiocy that I and other Sox fans want the team to lose, like all of us enjoy poor play on the field.

When you come out of left field with a bizarre comment it behooves you (ya like that word?)to explain what you mean….or do you even know?

Mark Liptak

Haha, I’m just teasing you. I know you don’t like it when the Sox lose. Hence the fact you appear so upset when they do lose. I just thought I’d be fun to see if I could get you all riled up. Success!

A little advice, when you are using someone elses thoughts, comments or writings you should quote them, not reword them.

Joe Cowley is a southside guy. He covered the Sox for the Daily Southtown before moving to the Sun Times. I highly doubt it makes him happy to see the team he covers lose. Columnists like Mariotti want the teams to lose because it is good fodder for him to write about. Maybe Joe is just as frustrated as the rest of us. And it is true that our division is probably the toughest in the game right, and as constructed this team may not be able to compete, but it does not mean we need to dump everyone. If we employ “These Kids Can Play Part 2” we will battle the Royals for last place constantly.

If they want to compete in 2008 and keep selling tickets like they have, they had best make some splashes in free agency and keep Buerhle around. For the most part Sox fans are smart consumers. The Chairman should be well aware of this. I guess it is just a waiting game now to see what happens.

To echo a comment above…

So for the love of this team, please do whatever it takes to KEEP BUEHRLE!!!

The World Series win did not end my suspicion that Jerry doesn’t make decisions based on what’s good for the long term vitality of the Sox. Think of it… after an awful start, we can either resign one of the best pitchers in White Sox history who WANTS to stay, or ship him off (and send 5000+ fans a night away from the park). For both the $ and for the team, the clear decision is to resign Buerhle. I just hope Jerry can see the light (and if not, someone please shine it in his eyes).

Too bad Mark’s last game could be limited to the U tonight. What a shame.

by the way that was a direct quote, so do not try to turn it on me, if you guys cannot see major change is necessary with an infusion of youth plus some different free agent signing you just do not know the game, my steadfast opinion, signing mark would be fine, but that would mean many other guys must go to clear payroll , for flexibility and to get some young players with hopefully speed and not injury prone.

ps I do not think kenny williams is egotistical, less so than most people, up front guy. but very slow to act here

I don’t think anybody would argue a change needs to be made, but our pitching is the one stability we have. Mark is young and would only be in his early 30s after a 4 year deal. Plus isn’t he a 10 year man in 2 years?? He basically has a no trade there any way, No? He hasn’t missed a start and gives 200+ innings. He also adds the intangibles, an on and off field example for young players. I can’t understand why you wouldn’t sign HIM. I don’t think White Sox fans are stupid, we know fan favorites have to go sometimes, its a business.As much as I loved Rowand, I understood that trade. I just don’t get this. I’m telling you there is more to this story we don’t know and I’m sticking with some kind of announcement tonight–wishful thinking on my part maybe!! Are we going to go through this next year with Garland??

Most likely, yes.

Yes the Sox have a TON of other needs including the outfield and a bullpen, however when all is said and done…


Both Buehrle and Garland are under 30, have shown stability and a history of avoiding injury.

THAT’S who you rebuild a pitching staff around…not Jose Contreras (how old is he again?) and Javier Vazquez (a solid back end of the rotation guy) and a bunch of kids out of the ‘black hole’ that is the Sox minor league system.

This ‘philosophy’ makes zero sense to me.

Mark Liptak

Well I think we have all found something everyone on this board FINALLY agrees on!! C’mon guys, just give him the darn contract!

Mark should get his contract. i cant wait til sox fest when i go to the first “team meeting” and hear everyone bash williams for this. that will be entertaining. i have never liked williams even when they won in 2005. what put the nail in the coffin for him to me was when he called out frank thomas. who in the **** is kenny williams? he was a bad player and he isnt that great of a GM. that rowand trade was a waste. it caused you to get rid of thomas, everett, garcia, rowand for a guy that hasnt produced when needed (2nd half of 06 first half of 07).

Please share with Kenny (who I am beginning to like less and less each season) and anyone else in White Sox management who gives a ****, that unless they sign Mark, they will continue to lose fans and profits in the seasons to come. As Sox fans, we know that we may lose fan favorites along the way as this is the cost of “doing business” and is understandable. However to lose a player with the caliber of Mark Buerhle over something as trifling as a “no-trade clause” is unforgiveable and downright STUPID!!!!!!

So for the sake of the fans and for the future support of this team SIGN MARK BUERHLE!!!!!!!!! I swear if we lose him to this madness I will NEVER set foot on U.S. Cellular soil as long as I live!!!

I have been 100 % sure they were going to trade Mark, but I now think they will sign him, they are backed in a corner, too good a deal. and I really liked how he pitched in his last outing without his best stuff. How can you turn it down in this market if signing price is on target with that reported. Lock him up for 4.

When you have cheap ownership and a bubble head for a GM I guess we can expect to continue to deal with there stupid ideas and tight pockets and closed minds. Let’s face it people no matter what kind of talent Kenny trades Mark for, the same thing is going to happen 3 years down the road, when they get real productive for the Sox and it’s time to pay up to keep the talent in Chicago the same dam thing is going to happen.I say package Kenny in a deal and send his butt off into the sunset, and keep Mark and build a team around him and Garland!!


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