Odd Thoughts

Thursday, October 4, 2007

Random Items …

In case I get too ahead of myself, a reader pointed out that while ranking ahead of the media in "trust" factor, bloggers still trailed GW by 2:1.  "Try getting elected with that," one noted.

Touche.

Best Records

A day or two ago, I asked how often the team with the best record in baseball actually won the World Series … well, my trustworthy, super productive interns, Tim Miller and Colter McElree, checked.

It has happened 45 times in history, but interestingly, the last time was 1998 (NYY) and before that, 1989 (OAK).  Since Division Play began in 1969, it has only happened eight times (1970, BAL; 1975-76, CIN; 1978, NYY; 1984, DET; 1986, NYM and the other two).

Also of interest, in the 12 years since the three-round playoff began in 1995, the AL’s best record has reached the WS five times (including us in 2005), while the NL has done it four times.  During that span, the team with the best overall record won just once (Yankees in 1998 above) … remember, the Cardinals won more games than we did in 05.

R-E-L-I-E-F

So Dan Fabian, a brilliant analyst in our baseball operations department, spends hours each season statistically evaluating the game, including relief pitchers.  Dan has devised and developed an interesting grading system for relief pitchers over the years.  I asked him how many of the Top 10 rated relievers from one year are among the Top 10 in the next year?

From 2005-07 the answer is 2 … Ryan from 2005 to 2006 and Saito from 2006 to 2007.

Thanks

To Mark Newman for posting the photo of Milano and for the kind, if untrue, editor’s note in yesterday’s blog.

Eeeck

So I read today that fans can wake up to hear my favorite columnist’s voice on their cell phone.

Look, I can tell you from hilarious, knee-slapping experience that hearing his voice on your voicemail the first thing in the morning spouting rubbish (and profanities, although I assume those are edited out for the general public) is ABSOLUTELY THE WORST IDEA IN THE WORLD.  Don’t do it.

Don’t start your day polluted.

249 Comments

Scott:

With all due respect to Dan and yourself, I simply can not accept the premise that basically a bullpen is a ‘crapshoot’ and that it all comes down to ‘luck.’ Tell that to the White Sox pitching staffs (bullpen included) from 1963 through 1967 for example.

This is major league baseball not the Brother Rice high school team or a bunch of semi pro guys who play on the weekend.

If it all comes down to ‘luck’ then that should be the case in all aspects of the game isn’t it?

They why does Kenny talk so much about his ‘plan’ and the ‘three year board’ in his office? It’s all ‘luck’ right?

I guess the Yankees have been ‘lucky’ making the playoffs 13 years in a row…or the Braves 14 straight, I guess the Cardinals have been ‘lucky’ making it 5 of the last 7 seasons…..

I guess the White Sox then have been one on the ‘unluckiest’ teams in baseball.

I leave you with this comment from Hall of Fame G.M. Branch Rickey for consideration. “Luck is the reside of design.”

Folks as Scott just pointed out to me, I misspelled a word in Branch Rickey’s comment. It should read, “residue.”

My apologies!

It is also nice to know that Scott takes the time to look this over and get back personally to ‘average’ fans. We may disagree with each other but we are both wedded to the White Sox. There are very few folks in his position who’d even give a **** what the fans say in the first place.

Very refreshing.

Mark Liptak

One final thought. I do need to explain my comments about ‘luck.’

Granted Scott doesn’t talk about ‘luck’ regarding a bullpen performance anyplace the past two days.

My inference is based on his general comments about building a bullpen, about being consistenly good, then today using Dan’s numbers of relief guys in the Top 10 being good in consecutive seasons. That led me to conclude that some feel it’s so hard to do (i.e. have a consistently good bullpen because relief guys can’t perform well in consecutive seasons.)

Perhaps as an ‘individual’ that may be the case, but it’s clear in baseball history and today that it CAN be done.

Just a few examples off the top of my head, the White Sox pens of the mid 60′s, the Reds of 75-76 when they had adequate starters but a great pen with guys like McEnaney, Carroll, Bourbon and so on, the recent Twins bullpens (injuries took a hit on them this season in the pen), San Diego has had a very good bullpen the past few seasons ditto the Angels.

Is it hard to do…yes…is there an easy answer…no.

But the fact remains that like it or not, the Sox can not continue to ‘give’ away leads in the 7th inning or later as often as they have done the past few years and ‘contend’ again. Not in this division.

Just my opinion.

Mark Liptak

Scott- Can you use your baseball sources to find out if Gio Soto of the Cubs wears mascara? Good to see them failing.

Good God give us back Chris Young! Please! This kid should have been the cornerstone of this franchise for the next decade. Instead we get stuck with Brian Anderson and Javier. Excellent. I guess it’s just a case of adding insult to injury, but this one hurts bad…And I’m insulted.

Anyway enough of my weekly Chris Young rant. Great to see Arizona socking it to the Cubs. All these experts expected the Cubs to just waltz their way to the NLCS. Not so fast Cubbies. To paraphase the words of a crazed Denny Green, nobody’s gonna crown your *** northsiders. Good job by the Indians too. They really worked the Yanks over.

Oh yes. Lilly slamming his glove after Chris Young violated him was a nice touch.

Don’t let Thome hear that you are happy the Flubs are failing. He’s pulling for them.

Scott- Didnt the Sox have the best record of the year in 2005 and win the world series?

dmkvmp- in 2005 the White Sox record was 99-63. The Cards record was 100-62. St. Louis had the best record, but we know who won the World Series last year.

And while it would be nice to have Chris Young, I’m glad we have Javy.

Marie

Bad Yanks got spanked yesterday, huh? Good! Deanklubs Indians look serious this year. And the Scrubs on the brink of elimination? I love it because they just thought that they had it in the bag!!!

Don’t get me wrong Marie I like Javier. He’s probably our best pitcher. But that was a really poor trade. I’m sure Kenny would agree. And if he doesn’t right now, he will in the future cause this kid is just going to get better.

In Phil Rogers column, he writes about how Arizona’s GM originally wanted Brian Anderson but Kenny was reluctant to give him up, maybe because Kenny himself scouted him. Whatever the reason it was the wrong decision and the type of decision that hurts the future health of this ballclub. Chris Young is young, cheap ($380,000) and talented. I mean 32 HR (27 SB) as a rookie. And he probably could have hit more playing at the hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular, though Chase Field seems pretty friendly too. Javier is at the top of his game for sure, and for $13 million he better be.

It’s trades like that that make some fans question what this organization is doing in terms of vision. Heading out of ’05 I thought we had a working formula; build a team based on speed, defense and good pitching. Then we trade for Thome and revert right back to a slugging-or-slumping team, all-or-none type squad, losing Aaron Rowand in the process and creating a vacancy in the outfield. One that could have been filled by Chris Young, in who you have both power and speed plus he’s homegrown. Now we have to go out and search for a CF and more than likely will end up paying double what we should have paid for Rowand to come back. It’s a flawed approach.

The team did quite a bit of experimenting with the pen but could not come up with much except who to eliminate, which should be the starte of rebuilding. Gio Gonzales and Adam Russell are both talented pitchers that may or may not help. Red Sox and Phillies did good by moving a starting pitcher to the bull pen. Our pen probably only needs one or two good additions, Bobby J., Logan, Thornton, are fine when used right, most of the rest are boderline but one more quality guy would make a huge difference, a set up man and a long man to keep the team in the game. There are a lot of pitchers in the system right now that are close or major league ready. I think the pen can be fixed, I am more worried about the team as a whole, the speed, defense , situational hitting, bunting, and fire, is more bothersome to me.

Don’t you just love all the second guessers who now are all over Kenny for trading Young to Arizona?

Or all the second-guessing fans of the northside team that are all over Piniella for pulling Zambrano on Wednesday?

It’s easy to be an arm-chair GM after the fact when all the numbers are in.

And Mr. Liptak, we know you don’t like the results of the Sox bullpen in ’06 and 07. None of us Sox fans did. We have heard it from you a million times. For every blown save, you have mentioned your stats at least three or four times.

We get the point.

And I agree with Dan Fabian. Bullpens that are consistently good from year-to-year are rare. If you have a horse like Hoffman, Rivera, or Smoltz, you ride him and are usually successful. But very few teams have people like that.

The Boston media for years has designated the Red Sox bullpen as the arsonists. They were doing it back in ’86 when Bob Stanley was busy blowing post-season leads.

In New York, Joe Torre may lose his job because he is blamed for overusing his ‘pen. so even a ‘pen with a Rivera can be inconsistent.

Under-performing bullpens are part of the game. Teams are more likely to get a better return on their money in free agency for position players and starting pitchers. Why? Because relief pitchers, by their nature, are inconsistent.

Great bullpens usually come when teams get lucky and a lot of guys put together career years at the same time. Just like the ’05 Sox when Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino, and an unknown kid named Jenks got everybody out in the second half and the postseason.

Back to the Young point, if Kenny had it to do over again, I’m sure he would trade Anderson instead of Young. Hey, if Custer had it to do over again, he never would have gone to Little Big Horn.

TC:

I respect your views but back to my original point. If baseball is determined completely by ‘luck’…then what’s the point of having any plan, any philosophy?

It’s all a crapshoot right?

Sorry I can’t buy that.

Minnesota, the Angels and San Diego have had good bullpens in multiple seasons the past few years.

It’s not all ‘luck.’

The Sox tried to do things a certain way the past few years…it didn’t work.

It happens.

No one is to ‘blame.’

The ‘blame’ comes in my opinion if steps aren’t taken to correct a serious issue.

Or to put it in your terms — to increase the chances you’ll get ‘lucky.’ (Does that work for you?)

I suspect Kenny doesn’t subscribe to the ‘luck’ theory and will take steps again to correct the issue…at least I hope so.

Mark Liptak

I’d rather have Javy than Young. Remember,C-Young’s succeeding in the national league, not the american, there’s a big difference.

What’s a lot harder to find these days, good pitching or good outfielders? I’d say that good pitching is a lot more difficult.

Also take note that Soriano-like players don’t really help a team, by that I mean players who hit lead off, can steal bags, but try to hit a home run in every at bat don’t help a team that much in the long run. Obviously Chris Young helped his team last night, but this is not always the case. He posted a .295 OBP this year, and for a leadoff man that is not good.

You’ve got to remember that although homeruns are good, they don’t quite do the same thing when there’s no one on base.

I’ll try not to belabour the point cause I’m sure people are sick of reading it. And for those who prefer Javier to Chris Young more power to you, I suppose that’s a matter of preference. Just a couple points I’d like to address. Good pitching is indeed hard to find, but it does you no good if you weaken the rest of the ballclub in the process of getting it, creating gaping holes in the rest of your roster(remember we gave up Vizcaino, a solid reliever and El Duque too). It does you no good if your offense ranks last in major categories. It does you no good when your team has become a one-dimensional, station-to-station ballclub with no speed and no versatility. And obviously it did nothing for us this season (unless you count our awesome takedown of the Royals for fourth). And if you look at the future of the Sox staff, you don’t see the veterans running things in a prominent fashion. You see the Floyds, the Danks, the Gios, the Broadways playing important roles because the market for proven pitchers has gotten out of control.

As far as the NL being more dilute in terms of talent that may be true but 32 HRs is 32 HRs. We had exactly one player hit over that total this year and it’s the one with 500+ to his credit who’s a closet Cubs fan to boot. And we had one (Owens) who had more stolen bases. We certainly had no one who encompassed both talents. And while the average and OBP were terrible (would have fit right in here in that regard though) he’s a rookie there’s time for improvement.

As far as all the second guessers tc1980, I’ve been second guessing that call since the day it happened because in my opinion it was a stupid trade. I don’t fancy myself some sort of Moneyballesque GM, but I am a fan that tries to pay attention. And fans are permitted their opinions. Look I don’t envy Kenny whatsoever. In the grand scheme of things, I don’t know **** about running a major league ballclub. If I ran the Sox, I’d have run them into the ground long ago. And despite my rants, I actually like Kenny as a GM. We won a championship because of Kenny. Before the last couple years he proved himself to be a very savvy GM. Now he needs to do it again because his acquistions let him down and made him look downright foolish this year. He can handle the criticism and he’s going to have to because I don’t think I’m the only White Sox fan out there that wants to hear some explanations (he’ll be hearing much worse at Sox Fest). That is his job. That’s what he gets paid for. My job (pay is not so good) is to criticize because ultimately that’s all I can do feel that my concerns are being heard.

Great game. Hafner comes up big when it counted. It looked like they were playing in a marsh, Lord of the Flies type vibe.

It’s incredible to think this is the same Carmona we saw last season. It seems like two completely different pitchers.

Hello again, everybody…
I’m am sorry to see that Razor took a fall for whatever it was that he did or didn’t do…I wish him the best with whatever organization he winds up with…Second, the best to “Caveman”Kusnyer…Even tough I don’t travel with the team, I have heard enough stories to know that he will be sorely missed…

Now, onto the second season to date…

At Jurrasic Park at Neverland, they are getting ready to sing… No, not the Steve Goodman song, but, instead, the Don Meredith Monday Night Football tribute…

TURN OUT THE LIGHTS,THE PARTY’S OVER…

THEY SAY THAT ALL GOOD THINGS MUST END…

Listening to the (pardon me, Brother Liptak, for mentioning a four letter word here)ESPN broadcast, and reading and hearing all of the accounts of the first two games, the Flubs are just doing their tribute to the 2000 ALDS versus the Mariners(who was the Seattle manager back then?…That’s right, “Uncle” Lou…)…when C Lee, Magglio, Paulie and Frank couldn’t have hit water if they were standing on a raft in the middle of the Chicago River…and “Uncle” Lou out managed Jery Manuel…

Truth be told, I have an 8 year-old great nephew who was only a year old at the time of that series…AND HE COULD HAVE OUTMANAGED JERRY MANUEL…

Long time WS fans will recall an episode in the early ’60′s when Veeck first owned the team and the Baltimore Orioles came to town…Hoyt Wilhelm was at that time a starting pitcher…it was a typical hot, humid night at old Comiskey…and all of a sudden, a swarm of gnats(the grandfathers of the Jacobs Field bunch???)invaded the pitcher’s mound…the game, naturally, was delayed as everybody tried everything in their power to get the little buggers to leave…Finally, a member of the crew who was in command of the scoreboard fireworks was brought in with the mother of all smoke bombs…They set it off…

BA-BOOOOMMMMM… A few minutes later, when the smoke finally cleared, the Canadian Soldiers were in their happy hunting ground…

Back in the NLDS,unfortunately for Aaron Rowand and Tadahito Iguchi fans, you can put a fork in the Phillies…because the Rockies are hotter than the current weather…as are the Carmines (Red Sox, for those of you who don’t speak Hawk Harrelson…)…and deanklubs Tribe…for which all Yank-me haters coast-to-coast and around the world say

“THANK YOU”…

That is NOT, however, what FOX is saying…what they’re saying should not be heard by ladies and those with delicate ears…

I will be dealing with the other comments I read here in due time…

By the way, I saw the Milano photo today…
One question…

WHY WASN’T I NOTIFIED OF THIS EARLIER??? AND WHERE WAS SHE,OR HER TYPE, THIRTY YEARS AGO WHEN IT MATTERED AND I WAS FUNCTIONING MUCH BETTER THAN NOW?????

As Jaime Navarro said:

VERY FRUS-TRATING…

I’m still not necessarily thinking Williams should have kept Young at the time, but here’s something that will probably upset a lot of you.

Apparently the Diamondback originally wanted Brian Anderson, not Chris Young. Woopsies!

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071004rogers,1,7847315.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Oh Palehoses already posted this, ignore my last post.

Ironically enough with all the talk of the D backs, chris young and razor shines, I believe in an MLB article a day or two ago, Chris Young credited Razor Shines (and another Sox coach) with his major league success. Kind of funny I thought.

We’re gonna start trusting the Tribune’s “baseball expert,” who sided with all the other bobos in picking the Cubbies in an easy series over the Diamondbacks? He’s as much a “baseball expert” as my pet hamster.

Find an anti-Sox bias whenever you can reads the memo from Trib Tower; after all, Dr. Phil recently found a way to connect another unsightly North Side loss to Ken Williams and the White Sox, in a column ostensibly praising Chris Young:

“PHOENIX — Ken Williams is an equal-opportunity heartbreaker.

His heavy-handed management of the White Sox, post-World Series, is having consequences on both sides of Chicago. His deals contributed to the Sox going backward, instead of back to the postseason, and now one of them is threatening to stop the Cubs too.”

Today on one of the sports talk stations here, Bruce Levine was interviewing the assistant GM of the Nats (forget the name), who was a major player with the D-backs as they built the current team. He was asked directly about the report that Anderson was the first player AZ asked about, only to be diverted to Chris Young. This fella made a distinct point of saying that Young had been on their board for some time and he was the key to the deal. Absolutely no mention that Anderson was a component of the deal whatsoever.

Looping in the Anderson vs. Young element is a complete construct of the Tribune’s continuing smear campaign. Says a lot about how confident they feel in their ballclub when, even after a theoretically successful season and a playoff series right on their doorstep, they’re relentlessly citing White Sox misdeeds, be they imagined or real.

Good series Cubs. AHAHAHA! Maybe next year.

Thank you Arizona!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I don’t feel as bad about the Sox season. Getting swept would be very hard to take. How about Chris Young? It would have been great to have him on the South Side.

Hope the Rockies get in too. Would be interesting to see either the ‘Rox’ or the D-Backs overachieve on some serious AL contender.

The White Sox have as many playoff wins as the cubs this year! Way to go out with class, lilly, you kindergardener. At least those jacka$ses didnt throw any trash on the field, they didn’t need to, 4 DPs and 3 errors, NICE. Weeeeeee. Has Chris Young now taken the thrown as King cub Killer? There are so many to choose from. Now Kenny, please find a way to steal Carl Crawford and sign him long term. You owe us one baseball season.

The numbers that count.

99 and counting..(since 1908)

62 and counting..(since 1945)

2005!!!!!

LOL

Mark Liptak

Did anybody else go onto youtube to blare the “Go Cubs Go!” theme song after the sweep tonight? It never sounded so sweet.

That’s funny you mention that mgrothendick cause that is exactly what I did! I had it cued up and started blasting that after the final out. Great and twisted Sox minds think alike I guess. There were so many to choose from so I went with the 2007 Cubs version.

I can’t take credit for this but anyone who wants to use it on their Cub fan friends…well it’s fine by me.

You know what the ‘C’ stands for on the Cubs hat right?

‘C’ is the Roman numeral for 100… as in 100 years without a title!

LOL

Mark Liptak

That’s classic.

Haha, clever.

Here’s just a nice video to go along with that Cubs song that some of us have heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKraecWnTs

Before we continue with MY shot at the residents of Jurassic Park at Neverland… a tip of the White Sox cap, if you will, to one of our very own on this site…Donna Mc Cormack, aka obrnmac,yesterday ran and COMPLETED the LaSalle Bank(soon to be Bank of America)Marathon…in conditions I wouldn’t have put apack mule through… She finished in a time of 6:20:08…but the important thing is SHE FINISHED !!!… Now she might have a better understanding of the old cliche when we say that the regular season is not a sprint, but a marathon…
Any way, congrats, Donna…White Sox Universe is proud of ya…

Now, onto the other comment…

I heard a rumor that Lou Piniella, his players and coaches, and the rest of the male members of the Cub front office, have been invited down to the fine jewelry section of Nieman-Marcus to pick out a symbolic rememberance for their wives or sweethearts(or both, if you know what I mean…)of their post season performance…

A lovely diamond choker…

(I’ll be hear all week folks…be sure and try the veal…)

There was a massive recall of cubs souvenirs from a Korean toy company. Due to an extreme choking hazard.

Buddy Bell is going to join the White Sox as a minor league field coordinator.

GREAT MOVE!

Bell knows baseball can teach it and was an excellent fielding 3rd baseman.

Perhaps in fact, fundamentals ARE going to be stressed this season.

Finally.

Mark Liptak

I’m going to let my ignorance show…will Buddy Bell also have an influence on our major leaguers? Will he be in Tucson for spring training, will it be normal for him to be there? Because I think our major leaguers could use some of that fundamental stressing, too. Sounds like Ozzie wants somebody like that for third base, why didn’t they move Bell there?

Yes Buddy will be in spring training. Yes Buddy will work with the major league players but his primary function will be to work with the minor leahue players helping to get them ready to play at the major league level someday.

My understanding is that Buddy didn’t want a major league position. Having fought an illness the past few years he wanted a position that allowed him time to rest and not have to go through the grind of 162 game schedule.

Minor league seasons aren’t anywhere close to being as long.

Again that’s just my understanding of this situation.

Mark Liptak

Just saw the news on Buddy Bell. It’s guys like him that can justify the tweaking of this team’s lineup (rather than overhauling everything). He is a class act and then some. Ballplayers like him are priceless….

Now this guy is one of our own! Move over Obama!!

From WBZ Radio – Boston:

Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick has refused a bet with Ohio Governor Ted Strickland saying ” I may live in Massachusetts now but I am not a Red Sox fan. My team is from the southside of Chicago. As a White Sox fan I hate both the Indians and Red Sox.”

LOL

Mark Liptak

Just a follow up on Gov. Patrick.

Apparently he grew up in the area around 47th & Wallace and has spoken in the past of how he lived and died with the 67 White Sox.

Mark Liptak

Hopefully Buddy can teach the players how to bunt.

Wow, that governor really put it out there. That ‘hating the red sox’ comment may cost him his job next election. That’s okay, cause I’m sure Daley can find him a plush job in one of Chicago’s Wards…..

To Governor Patrick…It’s about time we heard about a politician who isn’t afraid to state how he REALLY feels…I refer, of course, to that “spontaneous” rally organized by Bud Selig and the “usual gang of idiots” at MLB…in which the mayor of the great city of Chicago(to use a phrase his late father made famous),an avowed White Sox fan,put on a Flubs cap and spoke of how proud the city was of the North Side Diamond Chokers…
WHAT SACRILEGE,MISTOR MAYOR !!!

Now, we have a politician in the commonwealth of Massachusetts who makes no bones about it…he does not care what his constituents have to say about it…He favors the White Sox…

Good for you,Governor…

Just don’t stick your head outside the door of the mansion for a while, until this blows over…

Now, to the point I wanted to make…

To the Rand Mc Nally Department at MLB, those jabronies who make out the schedule every year…

Next season…Opening Day…

MARCH 31st…White Sox @ Cleveland…

My statement is merely this:

WHAT THE **** WERE YOU IDIOTS THINKING ABOUT???

WEREN’T ANY OF YOU OUT AT THE CELL LIKE I WAS ON APRIL 4TH THIS SEASON,FREEZING MY REAR APERTURE(hi, Dawn)OFF WATCHING THEM TRY TO PLAY NINE INNINGS???

I KNOW YOU’RE ALL OUT THERE ROOTING FOR GLOBAL WARMING,BUT IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN…

Or you can just ask the Seattle Mariners how they feel about playing at the Jake in early April…

SCOTT- If you’re reading this, what can you tell White Sox fans about Jose Silveiro other than what was written on the White Sox website? A lot of people wonder what he costed too.

Well, it’s been a while since anyone has posted, so I might as well write something…
How do you think the execs at FOX are feeling about a Cleveland/Colorado World Serious?…

Diehard baseball fans will watch the games, because we will watch anything regarding baseball…What the folks at FOX are scared to death about is that the casual fan won’t give a rat’s rear aperture(hi, Dawn)about these two teams and their future…especially when Bud and the “usual gang of idiots” at MLB have decreed that, should the Series go the distance, Game 7 will be played in either Cleveland or Boston on… NOVEMBER(BLEEPING)FIRST !!!

Yet another sign of brilliance…NOT!!!

Hmmm, I’m really interested in this World Series. It’d be neat to see if Colorado has the stones (hee, hee) to upset one of these AL monsters. It’s a good Cinderella story. Well, I’ll be watching anyway. Oh and how about boston? they’ve been playing like the white sox…..

Tom:

The thing is if the folks at the Eastern Sports Programming Network and Fox would promote the clubs not named New York or Boston, they WOULD have fan interest.

For example, three times Fox had the option of showing the Rockies on Saturday. Three times they passed them over.

If ESPN wouldn’t devote fifteen minutes a night on SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight strickly to the Yankees or Red Sox, maybe folks would care.

As it is when you have them constantly rammed down your thoats you lose interest.

They have no one to blame but themselves, and personally, I’m laughing over it!

Mark Liptak

The ironic point to the World Series is that Big Jim will be rooting for the Indians, even though they boo him at every opportunity. I’m still pulling for the AL,keeping it in the league, but it sure looks like the Rox will give the Indians all they can handle. Of course, if the Indians don’t pull a choke job before then.

my four cents worth (amount adjusted for inflation) from the desert. howdy everybody. i will be watching the rest of the season and will be rooting for the indians unless the red sox get in, then it’ll be the rox. it’s hard not to root for them in any event because of the cinderella thing and all, but after all they did beat the D-Backs. but we will see what shakes as it happens. and how about the stupid extra day off between games 4 & 5? i know there was supposed to be a NL game tonight, but that colorado team didn’t read that script. and to ride along on TQ’s idea, how about a snow storm or something and the indians have to play in milwaukee like they did to start the season….. later all…. j.k.

ah yes. a holiday Triple header…. The cowboys, the lions and the indians all play on terduckin day!!!!! YES…..

One thing about Boston is that 3-4-5 they have in Ortiz, Ramirez and Lowell. The polar opposite of the White Sox, three up and three down.

As far as ESPN, when I think of Colorado I think of skiing. When I think of Tampa, I think of the Bucs. Lack of media coverage could be an effect rather than a cause of fan apathy. Who decided to stick those franchises there? When I think of Baseball, I think of New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit and etc (among others). Problem is even in recent years, excepting Boston and New York (AL) everyone else is so up and down on how they’re doing it’s tough to gauge how much attention they should get at any given time. Boston’s been fielding some awesome teams in recent years, New York Yanks as well. Look at us, or Baltimore, or well, fill in the blank. At least Steinbrenner and the BoSox want to win and act like it and have the solid fan backing. Imagine Cuban on the North Side, you could officially forget the White Sox. And yes, spending does not automatically get you championships, but in lieu of that you must have above average scouting, general managing and minor league affiliates. The White Sox as of present don’t appear to have any of these. So yeah, ESPN tends to default to its bread and butter, the Yankees and the Red Sox. Would the coverage given the Red Sox this year have made any sense applied to the Rockies of previous years? Or to the White Sox this year? A good team is a good team.

Windy:

There are other ‘good’ teams every year in baseball…take Cleveland this year who ‘happened’ to tie with the Red Sox for the best record in baseball.

Care to compare the coverage they got to the teams in the Northeast from ESPN?

How about the Angels??

I understand where you are coming from but ESPN and Fox are supposed to be NATIONAL networks right?

They (like baseball) look for the short term gain (ratings) over the long term ones….then they cry and moan when their ‘beloved’, ‘overhyped’ teams (can you say Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and Cubs) fall flat on their faces and they are left with the Colorado’s, Arizona’s Cleveland’s of the world.

Like I said they are at least partially at fault. I hope the ratings are awful, I hope they lose millions in advertising rebates.

Like the old Smith & Barney commercials with John Hausmanm used to say “they earned it.”

Mark Liptak

Doesn’t the ‘E’ in ESPN stand for eastern? May be national but I can see the room for bias if that’s the area it’s out of. And mentioning the network that brought us ‘fair and balanced’ reporting in FOX News, kinda undercuts your argument…. LOL, we already know they’re unashamedly biased in everything.

But as for Cleveland or Anaheim. How many years before this one was Cleveland making runs and folding up? Anaheim makes it to the playoffs every couple seasons, but did they make it last year? I’m not saying its right, but you get a little more consistency out of the two out of the AL East. Other teams, it’s a **** shoot. Cleveland this year was getting pounded by the Yanks and BoSox, so if they lead the Central division, but so do the other two (in the East), who’s gonna get the press? Probably the established teams. Just the way it is. Again, not saying its right, but it is what it is…

Windy:

Just to be clear I’m talking Fox Sports not the news division. I prefer to leave political discussions out of sports forums.

By the way the E in ESPN stands for Entertainment. The letters actually mean Entertainment and Sports Programming Network.

Mark Liptak

Hey Windy, it’s a shame, isn’t it, that Fox News can’t be all liberal, all the time, like all the other network news. A cryin’ shame. If you’re not sure, that was satire.

Liptak: Political discussion? I’m talking baseball. MY POINT is that any major corporation in television sells something, its how they function. ESPN and FOX will go with the proven sellers in Boston and NYC for their ‘bread and butter’ coverage to pay the bills. Just like FOX news will cater to a certain world view, to pay their bills. I merely pointed out FOX news as a stand out example. Politics ain’t what I was looking to get into. You may want to address Mr. Tucker.

And Tucker, I was merely poking at a good example. Your post sounded less satirical and more passive aggressive. I grew up around Pilsen and got a good world view of reality. I went to school (yeah, I was a know it all college kid). And in fairness, no network seems entirely fair and balanced and all have their moments of clarity (some tend to be really pointless, all that celebrity news). But I would advise you against attempting to brow beat people and playing it off as trying to be cute. I knocked FOX News the way ESPN was getting knocked on. My gist is, it just is as it is and that’s the way it’ll be. Maybe you can associate, not every news story is something you agree with whether its Mariotti, O’Reilly or Friedman, but rather than get angry at something you can’t help, you just try to listen to see if there is in fact something there. No sense in being Bull-headed, and i learned that from Kevin Cowherd on ESPN radio who at times I can’t stand. Are you okay with that? Or would you like to blog with some more rancor?

Sorry if I offended with my skepticism of corporate america. Not trying to attack anyones moral views. Back to baseball?

Oh by the way, Mr. Liptak, do you see where I’m coming from on the coverage thing? NYC and Boston have a national fanbase. Everyone else gets mentioned and glossed over, but boston, NYC and even the Cubs this year can give you stories all year long, where the good baseball teams like Colorado and Cleveland and even the 2005 Chicago Sox only get their due towards the end. It’s just the way things will be for now, assuming they can change.

Oh and Mike Lowell is the man….

Windy:

One of my points is that as a NATIONAL newtwork ESPN and Fox SHOULD NOT be catering to the New York – Boston axis as much as they do. I understand some, when justified, but every **** show? Every single day of the season and most of the off season??

That’s way out of line and way overboard.

One of the few good things about ESPN is that they have an independent ombudsman who looks at them and writes columns about what they do. I recall one he wrote last season that said in essence. (And I’m paraphrasing)’ESPN has got to understand that people say in Phoenix do not care about the Yankees- Red Sox the way fans on the East Coast do.’

I don’t need fifteen minutes of coverage every night on everything that happened that day in ‘Yankeeland.’

When one of their favorites are doing well it’s ‘why the Red Sox are going great.’

When one of their favorites is doing badly it’s ‘why are the Red Sox playing bad?’

I mean who cares? Diamondback fans don’t..White Sox fans don’t, Cardinal fans don’t.

What, they don’t matter in the ratings? They don’t count? The ratings only count fans in Boston and New York?

What he’s saying is that by constantly ramming them down the throats of fans who don’t care about them it’s hurting the business in the long run.

Fans aren’t watching, fans aren’t listening because they are tired of it.

Short term = great ratings.

Long term = ? problems and issues. (Things that could be mitigated with a little better balanced coverage.)

Here’s a personal story. I know one of the anchors at ESPN Radio. He’s from Colorado and went to school in Nebraska. He’s one of the few folks who work there that AREN’T from the East Coast (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, SAY no more!) We were talking about this and he said when he got to the network, one of the FIRST things he was asked by people there was, “are you a Yankees fan or a Red Sox fan.” His answer was “neither.”

Here’s the kicker…he said those folks who were asking the question COULDN’T BELIEVE he wasn’t a fan of one or the other. It was incomprehensible to them!

THAT’s the type of atttiude I’m talking about. And there’s more.

Normally I don’t do this. I think it’s wrong to visit Scott’s site and promote another place but I’d suggest reading this story. It’s easier for you to read the piece then for me to try to explain it in detail. (And I apologize to Scott.)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=3016

Mark Liptak

By the way has anyone else read this unmitigated gall, this absolute arrogance from the ****** at Baseball Prospectus?

Unbelieveable.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=554

Those idiots blew it in 2005 and heard about it….they finally get something right in 2007 and then have the gall to say this tripe?

The fact that they ‘predicted’ the Sox 72-90 record was PURE DUMB LUCK.

For everything the ‘stat-geeks’ at that site get right, you can find three things they completely blew.

Such as their comments about how the Twins couldn’t be winning those titles in this decade or this year’s Diamondbacks.

Absolute arrogance. They never admit they completely got it wrong… instead they’ll ‘invent’ new formulas that PROVE they were ‘right’ and the results were ‘wrong.’

Words can’t accurately describe how I feel about them.

Mark Liptak

Windy, brow beating? I’d hardly call what I posted as brow beating. I am merely a conservative who has gotten a little tired of liberals whining that Fox is unashamedly biased in everything, (whether you fit that category or not) but thinks ABC, NBC, and CBS are merely reporting the news, when they are exactly the same as FOX; unashamedly biased, just liberally. Obviously the Yankees have the largest market, just look at their TV revenues, and Boston is their greatest rival, so ESPN goes for that same market of viewers. That just makes sense to them, but when their teams are done, it also would be very humorous to be around those studios to witness the long faces.

hi y’all, i just turn those shows off, and i learned to watch towards the end of the show in ’05. keep smiling….. j.k.

oh, yeah i forgot to mention that it’s more fun to read this blog than watch those “national-fair-and-balanced-east coast-biased-shows” anyway. so keep the wit and wisdom coming in…. j.k.

Well Tuck, I’m a good old family values Conservative too, but I don’t feel oppressed or under siege (nor do I label things with a liberal bias, cause it usually just ain’t always that simple). I went the majority of my life without cable and don’t feel the worse for it. The problem with the news everywhere is too much sensationalism and thin skins. That tends to go for all networks but Fox irks me alot in that regard, always alone….

And Liptak, the way I hear it population in the old Northeast and old Northwest (read Midwest) accounts for most of the population of this country. Not to discount Arizona. I’m in Fort Wayne Indiana. Anywhere from 3-6 hours from Detroit, Chicago, Cincinatti, Cleveland, St. Louis and etc.

I have met the token Tigers fan. I know of maybe 2-3 Cards fans, and 3-5 Reds fans. Know only 2 Indians fans (despite the fact that Eric Wedge is a Fort Wayne native). Happened to meet a Twins fan. And know about 3 Sox fans outside of immediate family. But you talk Cubs and that number goes up. You talk Boston or NY Yanks, even higher. That’s here in the ole rustbelt Midwest. Boston and NYC are just an easier sell. All due respect to the man from Nebraska and other fans, it’s not that they don’t matter, and I don’t doubt the validity of your story, it just isn’t anything new. I agree, they cover these guys a lot, but looking at even the numbers of Yankees fans even in Chicago I can’t TOTALLY say they’re wrong. They ain’t right or fair and Arizona’s fans do count. But we can talk ‘SHOULDS’ all day. Maybe if the White Sox started consistently fielding aggressive ball clubs, always topping the Division for maybe a min of 5 years, you may be able to get a shift, but everyone is up and down, the folks at ESPN will go with the national fanbase and their own proclivities. I get irked when they cover NASCAR, i want baseball or football coverage but they don’t ramrod things down my throat. I can change the station and it doesn’t appear to hurt their bottom line. And somehow baseball still survives in its expanded league format. The big story in my mind is the parity in baseball. The Yanks can’t buy a championship, and Colorado is in the WS for building a baseball team the right way. That’s my thing, a glimmer that baseball is on an uptick, maybe ESPN will be forced to follow suit if these trends keep up, something to hope for. I have a flat to change, I will check out those articles though.

Oh and call me Dom, I may be Windy in speech patterns, but you may as well use my name.

Oh and Ortiz can run for a seemingly unathletic DH. He can outrun some of our starting lineup no problem. No wonder we can’t get coverage……

Goodyear? Try a terrible year! This is my third flat on this car in a years time. I just couldn’t help laughing when I looked at the brand. It’s official, my car (and its tires) are magnets for road debris…..

Just for the sake of conversation I’ll throw in my two cents as a true and proper liberal. Network/Cable news is sensationalistic garbage. Whether you’re conservative or liberal, you’d do well to steer clear of all that ****. Just a bunch of idiots parroting tired old talking points that have no relevance to the common American or the problems they face. Unless you’re really interested in how to get that horse pulled out of the mud or what Britney Spears is up to or which Senator is tapping what foot in which bathroom, it’s useless.

ESPN is garbage. You’d do well to steer clear of that too. But it’s so **** convenient. Like McDonalds for the sports fan soul; easy to access but never providing anything substantial.

A Colorado/Cleveland matchup would be great. I’m really hoping Boston loses, still got a nasty taste in my mouth from that Buehrle for Wily Mo proposal. Either way though, one’s got to be impressed with the way the AL Central has stood up to the AL East the last couple of years in the postseason.

I’ll be losing internet access for awhile so it’s been nice chatting it up with all of you during this miserable season. Hoping to be back before Spring Training. Have yourselves a good holiday season.

Amen to that on cable news. And ESPN, it’s like drugs….er, ahem, or so I hear….

I don’t know, no preference on the Boston/Cleveland deal. I just hope it goes 7 games since there’s no more baseball. I just hope Colorado can make the WS interesting. Happy Holidays Palehoses…..

The White Sox had two more Dominican signings reported by BA, usually this isn’t reported so it could be a sign of some significant signings.

Carmona having another rough postseason start…. Well, Mr. Liptak, I see i kinda mentioned a few of the points you mentioned in your column. I wish I’d have also caught the Ed Sherman column as well. I see where you’re coming from especially with the large markets argument.

I know Chicago and LA being what they are we ought to see more coverage. It seems that the Dodgers and the Cubs merely have to be showing something decent to get attention, where the Sox or Angels have to make the playoffs. I can’t speak to the degree to which Houston is a baseball town, but I do think Boston despite it’s size, has been a solid baseball town. They had Ted Williams, we had Ol Aches and Pains… For us I think it comes down to the teams we’ll field. I hope we can pull off some savy trading this off season. I also hope to see a new World Series champ this year that hasn’t won in the last say, 4 years.

Who is that goofy green boston mascot….. he looks like don zimmer….

Isn’t the Red Sox mascot named after the “Green Monster?” Kind of makes sense to me.

Random notes while waiting for the World Serious…
kr… Yes, Kris… the Red Sox mascot is named “Wally”…

for those of you who wondered besides our dear friend in Macomb…

Second…that HUGE sigh all of you may have heard was the exhaling emanating from FOX Sports headquarters…and all the signs up there today are simply reading “TGIB–TGIB”…

which simply means “THANK GOD IT’S BOSTON!”…which should really go over well in Cleveland…

Thirdly… windy…er, Dom…

The LA and Chicago markets don’t even need something decent to get attention, as far as the National League representatives are concerned, because each has the greatest marketing tool available at their disposal…for the Dodgers, it’s Chavez Ravine…not to mention Vin Scully…while, of course, here in Chicago, it’s Jurassic Park at Neverland, as well as the Spirit of Holy Cow!Boston had Cub disease—close but no cigar—for years up until 2004…but Red Sox Nation follows them faithfully…and, for your future information, the host on (cover your eyes,brother Liptak)ESPN Radio is named Colin Cowherd, not Kevin…

although that is logical to make the mistake, being that the Fort Wayne air is kind of jammed anyway, isn’t it?(Go, you Komets!!!)

As for the Series itself, like all of you,I would just like to see good, close, competitive games…and I’d like to see the breath emanating from the mouths of young Buck and old man Mc Carver next weekend when they eminate from Coors Field…have them do their standup and scene set from field level…LIVE…

Don’t worry about them not getting back to the heated booth in time for the first pitch… FOX will take care of that by just scheduling one of their usual five minute breaks before the first pitch is thrown in anger…

And finally, Brother Tucker…

You have your right to write what you did…just as I,as a middle-of-the roader(neither conservative nor liberal…because BOTH SIDES could f*#k up a one car funeral, if given the opportunity…)have the right to read and respond…

Isn’t this a great country, folks?

I grew up in Fort Wayne and I never thought I would read “Go Komets” on any blog. I was reading the Indians message board and they are killing everyone (Wedge, CC, Hafner, etc). Unfortunately for Sox fans, I think the Indians will win the Central next year. They have too much talent. I will be pulling for Colorado in the WS. I can’t stand Peter Gammons and all the rest of those imbeciles on the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network.

Yes, this is a GREAT country, Mr. Quaid. How are you enjoying your new Ozzie jersey? I just know you’re the envy of a certain scribe at the Sum Times! Blake, I too will be pulling for the mile-high mashers, going against my league, mostly because of a certain show-boater who celebrates his greatness at his every opportunity.

It would be interesting to see the 40 yrd times for the dif. players, I would suggest that we have the slowest team in baseball, so ozzie ball is a joke. lets make some trades kenny.

A players 40 yard dash time means nothing in baseball. They run in 30 yard increments.

There may be other problems with the White Sox and Ozzie Ball, but 40 yard dash times are irrelevant.

trepec,
Stop being so technical. We do have the slowest team in baseball. Ozzie Ball is a joke, and williams better make some moves!

Steve,
Stop being so uninformed. I never said they weren’t the slowest team in baseball. I said 40 yard dashes mean nothing in baseball. I agree, Kenny does need to change some things.

The Sox do have some speed…Owens, Richar, Pods(if remaining), but it sure drops off after that. With power, you slow down. You have to have power in the AL, why are the Angels always sniffing at Konerko? BUT, the real problem is that our power (Konerko, Thome, Dye) and our catcher are the slowest of the slow. Station to station drives me nuts!

I just said it would be interesting the 40 times, , just a point. Also the worst bunters and near the bottom in situational hitting that is the opposite of what is advertised as ozzie ball , it just makes no sense to keep promoting ” ozzie ball”. I would also like to see the stats in hitting into double plays, of course they strike out so much that helps the double play stats. We were at the bottom in scrifice flies for a while also that is why I just do not get it when they say we have a great core team.

With regards to the discussion of the times in the 40 yard dash… Is that really meaningful in baseball? I sincerly doubt it…I have seen in my looooonnnnngggg life of watching baseball a lot of guys with great speed…who couldn’t get to first base to begin with(reminds me of my love life…but enough tragedy here…)You don’t have to have an entire team of track stars to field a baseball team…Look at the American League representative in the World Serious this year…the Red Sox have rarely, if ever, been noted for their speed on the bases…If you string enough hits together, with everything else,you really do not need the speed factor exclusively to win in the AL…The Yank-mes don’t have speed, but we’ve all seen what they have done through the years…Now, the National League may be a different story entirely with their teams, with regards to the speed factor…I don’t know,since I limit myself to the AL…
And, Mr Tucker, thanks for inquiring about the Ozzie jersey…with the advancing cold weather, it has been retired until it becomes possible to wear without freezing my arms off…

Yea you don’t need speed if you have a team that can hit the ball. We don’t have either.

LOL, yeah, we don’t have either….

Guess I didn’t care enough to get Cowherds first name right….I think I’ll keep calling him Kevin. By the way, you couldve knocked me over being that you gave a shout out to the Komets……

Ozzie weighs in with the final word on this subject of speed…

“I’m tired of playing station-to-station baseball. I’m tired of hitting 200 home runs to get something going. I’m tired of striking out too many times. In Spring Training, we are going to turn the switch on right away. We are not going there to see how players get ready for the season.”

From a story on White Sox.com.

If Ozzie actually means what he says, that HALLALUJAH!

It’s about time!!

Mark Liptak

windycity… Dom, believe me, I could have gone farther back in the memory bank and given a shout out to the fans of the Ft Wayne Zollner-Pistons…currently playing in Detroit…or should I say, Auburn Hills, Mi. …

well ozzie did follow my post with pretty much the same thing that I said, I think he really does like, pitching , defense, speed, bunting and situational hitting, the team just took a left turn away from that the last 2 yrs. Trading for thome was a big factor in the slide away from defense as then we had a yr of anderson’s struggles, pods injuries and so forth.

ps the 40 times was just an illustration an anology yet two people posted that it had nothing to do with baseball, that was not the pt. the point was team speed.

dleeun…Team speed is important,but it really shouldn’t be the only factor that people should loook at when judging a ball club…The ability to reach base, advance runners, etc.are equally important…
For an analogy…for a car to run properly(pardon the inadvertant pun…), all cylinders must be operating at the same time…

I think that’s what I meant…

I have to go now… my head is starting to hurt…

As to last night’s Boston Massacre…All I can say is, if it keeps going like that, we won’t have to be concerned with seeing baseball on November 1st…because it could be all over with by next Tuesday…then we could start focusing on the improvements that have to be done by Kenny and company on the boys…

Brooks has made a number of tremendous, inspired moves since he took over. This is not one of them:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071025shermanim,1,264766.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

As someone in the mainstream media alluded to me in an interview regarding Singleton’s hiring in the first place instead of better established, more experienced guys like Tommy John, Steve Lyons or Ron Kittle,(who told me he applied for the job), this ‘smacks’ somewhat of money..as far as what was willing to be paid and what others wanted.

To think Steve Stone was potentially available and based on all accounts the Sox had numerous e-mails and calls from fans wanting him on board this season.

Amazing.

Mark Liptak

Once again I’m not trying to offend anyone with my comments. Just that as someone who worked in the business I know a little about what works and what doesn’t, what makes a good broadcaster or broadcast team and what doesn’t.

To me hiring someone, or re-hiring someone because they have “potential” makes sense for places like Great Falls, Hickory or even Charlotte, not the 3rd largest market in the country or for an organization that performs at the highest level in the sport.

In this case Sox fans deserve a polished, experienced broadcast team. One that works together, one that ‘sounds’ good individually and together and one that can communicate what is happening on the field in a clear, concise manner.

I simply don’t hear this with these two individuals certainly nothing, not even close to what John Rooney and Ed Farmer did.

Just my opinion.

Mark Liptak

Mr. Quaid, i am impressed, the Zollner Pistons. You don’t happen to know where they played do you?

As far as the Sox go (ours), no five tool players on the field and none in the minors (too extreme?). We have quite a bit of ground to make up.

Disappointed that Torre is free, and, well, we filled the slot. I know, no guarantees, especially since ole Joe had and got all that he wanted, but I liked the guy.

Oh, and as far as the name kevin, I noticed earlier this year that Mike Lowell of the BoSox was having a good year, and i was calling him Kevin Lowell for some reason. Whatever….

Three items of note…
1)Brother Liptak… Not every broadcast is going to go into the archives of the Museum of Broadcasting…every broadcast team is just like the team on the field they cover…somedays they are very good, prescient and clicking on all cylinders…Some days they can’t get anything right…

Not every broadcaster can be Vin Scully either…

I would like to have your assessment of the pair who cover the North Side of this town, and what THEY bring to the pressbox every day…Trust me, my friend, those two make Farmer and Singleton sound like the reincarnation of Mal Allen and Red Barber…

Just MY opinion…

2)Happy anniversary, WS Universe…Two years ago tonight, the Miracle on 35th Street was finalized…seems like longer ago than that, unfortunately…

3)Everyone should hope that the Red Sox win the World Serious…because, and this could be a REAL stretch here, we all remember what happened in 2004 when Boston did win…as far as what happened the NEXT YEAR…(See Note 2)…

Pardon the misspelling…Of course, it should be Mel Allen…
Say what you will(and you will),but in my opinion,and, as it turns out,the opinion of the people who make the decisions, Chris singleton improved 180 degrees in 2007 from where he was in 2006…Let’s just see what happens in ’08 before we speak,shall we?…I realize that he came on the cheap, but he HAS improved…and Grumpy ole Farmio will, hopefully,give him more slack and space next season…

I agree with Liptak. Huge mistake bringing Singleton back. He just isn’t good at broadcasting, and it is a tough listen. Chicago deserves better then this!

Tom:

A few things.

Ed and Chris have done approximately 350 games (including exhibition games) together and the chemistry is apparently still an issue.

I can tell you from personal experience it does not take 350 games to establish chemistry or to tell if you are going to get it.

If you don’t have it by now…well the odds are very, very long that you are going to.

Second, I’ve been in touch with an individual deeply connected to MLB and the business of broadcasting it. White Sox fans would recognize the name if I revealed it.

According to this person he was “surprised” that Chris was brought back. This individual said that everything he had heard and everything he was told, stated that Chris was gone and Stone was coming in.

Unasked this individual said that money appeared to be the issue in this.

I have no idea if this is true or not I’m mearly passing on what I was told by this person.

This person also said that as late as August they observed that Ed and Chris simply were not getting along.

Take it for what it’s worth.

Mark Liptak

Folks:

Here’s something that I just received from the person who I talked about in the previous post.

He is a part of both MLB and the business of broadcasting it.

I send it as is, except that I deleted the last line or two which would give away the identity.

You can accept it or reject it as you choose.

—–

Mark:

“What I know about Steve Stone, from both someone on the inside, and from WSCR, both VERY close to the situation was that Stone was in the mix… so much so that they considering doing the old 6 innings on radio, 3 on TV thing… the thought process was get Stone in the fold now! and then make the full time switch to TV for ’09.

I’m sure money was a factor along with the outside shot that Stone could still be part of a new management team with the Cubs.

I am not fully aware of all the details of Chris’ deal… but I think it was five 1-year deals where the TEAM has the option to pick you up for the next season.

—–

Mark Liptak

Can any of you tell me how to get the final out rington? I’m trying to surprise my husband with it. I’ve tried the link here two different times. I get all the way to the “buy” tab, I select it, and nothing ever happens. I’ve enabled cookies and all of that stuff and I shop online all the time so I’m pretty adept. I tried to write to Scott but can’t find an email adress for him anywhere. I sent one to the White Sox but I’m sure I’ll not hear back from them. Any help you techies can give me will be greatly appreciated. I’m SURE my husband would love to have the final out as his ringtone! Thanks.

Mark,
Personally, I like Farmer and Singleton. What I’d like to ask you Mark is, with your contacts and inside information, what are the chances that Stone could be paired up with Hawk on TV? I really don’t like DJ and Hawk. Talk about boring, I’ll mute the TV and listen to the radio if the delay is not too bad. What is the contract situation on DJ? I would not be surprised if Stone was in the TV broadcast booth rather than the radio. Just wondering your thoughts or insight on that?

Marie

Just my feeling, I prefer, over the course of the season, DJ and Hawk in the booth over stonie, stonie is informative and predicts a lot of pitches and so forth, his style grows tiresome, to egotistical is my call on him, too much about him, He is Ok though better than most.

Marie:

According to one of the two indivuduals that I spoke with (see above posts), the thinking was to get Stone into the TV booth in 2009.

But if you can’t get him signed to a deal in the first place, it’s all a mute point isn’t it?

I think (again I stress think) that DJ has a multi year deal and would be surprised if he leaves before it’s up.

As someone who had the pleasure to listen to Hall of Fame announcers with the Sox like Bob Elson (I know, he was boring but it was also a different time and styles were different), Milo Hamilton, Jack Brickhouse and of course the finest team they ever had in a booth, Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall, the current unit of four, as a whole, leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.

I also enjoyed listening to another good team in Don Drysdale and Hawk as well as the tones of John Rooney.

Mark Liptak

Elson great sox fan smooth. Milo Hamilton a pro. Brickhouse not for me. Caray great, Jimmy Piersall loved his comments , would critique anyone manager, player , brutally honest. He would not last a wk. today mgr. players would rebel, dif. era but I loved him.

As you know I’ve been talking with two sources on this issue. One in the mainstream Chicago media, another who is in the business of broadcasting baseball for MLB.

I’ve already posted that individuals comments earlier.

I heard back from the Chicago media individual who tells me that WSCR radio is STRONGLY denying that Steve Stone was ever in the picture and is contradicting everything my first source told me.

Frankly I don’t know who to believe.

I do find it amazing if this latest comment from WSCR is in fact true, how Steve Stone, could NOT have been a part of this.

No disrespect to Chris Singleton, but he isn’t even in the same stadium as Steve Stone when it comes to the ability to broadcast a baseball game.

Mark Liptak

i thought i’d weigh in on this discussion just before the Series is over. since i don’t get radio chicago, i don’t know the names of which you speak except for Farmer and Rooney who i listened to in ’05 when i couldn’t get mlb.tv. i thought they were good. but White Sox World, be very gratefull that we DON’T have the tandem of buck and mccarver. these guys make so many mistakes, i could do a better job than they do, so whoever We have, at least they aren’t as bad as those two jamokes (shout out to you TQ). i just heard that A-Rod is opting out of his contract. Boras aside, how about us in the mix? the daydreams continue to roll here in tucson…… j.k. later all and have a safe and happy halloween….

As much as we’d love to have ARod the player on our Sox, it does not make sense financially to have him. If rumors of his upper 20s to 30 million are true that is just something that will not be worth it in the big picture. He will play great but it is very unlikely he will drive in 156 runs again.

Thome made a little over 15 million this year and is the highest paid player on the Sox. Jim was the 9th highest paid player in the MLB this year. Is A-Rod worth having two Jim Thome salaries over?

I’m guessing a normal top hitter in baseball would get about 18-20 million in Free Agency right now and they’d have to be pretty stinkin good for that money (only ARod, Jeter, and Giambi made that much this year), if we assume ARod can tack on about 15 more RBIs than that player, is that worth an extra 10 million? I don’t think so. Just ask the Rangers if its worth it.

He also hasn’t played shortstop since ’05 and hasn’t played it full time since ’03. A switch there would be tough.

I guess the homerun race/attendance increase could work, but I guess in the end there’s something that just doesn’t feel right about giving one player that much. Kenny Williams was upset with the Cubs for screwing up the market with their free agent signings this offseason, so I’m doubtful he’ll go out and do the same.

Thats my opinion at least.

Brother Liptak: You still have not responded to my request of your comments on the radio duo on the North Side of the tracks… If you ever heard Farmer his first two years after bhe replaced Wayne Hagen…the kindest adjective you could use would have been BRUTAL…
As to Stone Pony…he is an excellent analyst…but,like another excellent analyst of the past,Lou Boudreau, Steve’s whine gets to be a little too much…besides, he does not need to prop up Hawk like he did with the old man after Holy Cow’s stroke…when he accidentally(some think deliberately)became America’s senile old grandfather…

I am of the old school that says that the broadcast team for a major league baseball franchise should consist of two PROFESSIONAL BROADCASTERS, not a professional broadcaster and a former player who doesn’t know his butt from his elbow about how to be a broadcaster, but is brought in for name value ONLY…REGARDLESS of what he would be paid…

I will go back and re-read Mark’s comments at another time…

Right now, I am writing this the day after the Red Sox demolition of the Rockies…

Can you said “outmanned”, boys and girls?…I knew you could…But now, the ball is in the White Sox court…

Why, you ask?

Remember what happened in 2004? Red Sox down BIG TIME in the ALCS, come back to win,then sweep the Series…

What happened the next year?

I know it’s a stretch, but what the ****…I just throw it out there as a possible incentive for the boys…

Tom:

This has nothing to do with the Cubs. I don’t understand how they are being brought into the conversation.

They have nothing to do with the White Sox team’s do they?

Saying as I think you are, ‘well we’re better then the Cubs’ is meaningless.

The Cubs don’t have the best in the world either, so because we may be better then they are, that makes it OK?? What…

In my opinion at least Pat Hughes is a very skilled play by play man.

Ed Farmer is a very, very good analyst who is out of position (to coin a phrase) as a play by play guy.

Chris Singleton…well…

The goal is to be the best in all areas including the broadcasting teams, not ‘we’re better then the Cubs…’

Mark Liptak

Former Sox employee Dave Dombrowski is at it again in Detroit.

They just got Renteria from Atlanta for two minor league prospects.

He sure would have looked good on the South Side…much better then Uribe…at least Renteria appears to be in shape.

Oh well…

Mark Liptak

I seldom get mad or upset on this website anymore, but…
DAMMIT,MARK, I JUST WANTED YOUR DAMNED OPINION OF THE CUB BROADCASTERS AS OPPOSED TO THE SOX…NOT THAT THE SOX ARE BETTER THAN THE CUBS, OR MY FATHER CAN BEAT UP YOUR FATHER, OR ANY OF THAT SIXTH GRADE BULL**IT…

THAT’S ALL THE **** I WANTED…

WHY MUST YOU KEEP READING THINGS THAT AREN’T THERE INTO QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS MADE BY THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATE IN THIS EXERCISE???

Whew,that was exhausting…

Great news from half a world away…

Man Soo’s new team, the SK Wyverns, won the 2007 Korean Championship; the Wyvern’s first ever.

I have always admired Man Soo, and am glad to see that success has followed him back home. Congrats LMS!!!

O.K.

Here’s my take for what it’s worth. And I apologize for misreading your ‘intentions,’ considering that it came out of the blue, to me, it was a logical assumption.

As stated I think Hughes is very competent, I think he’d be better without Ron Santo who may be, in fact, the worst ‘broadcaster’ (and I use that term loosely) I’ve ever heard.

The Cubs keep him employed for entertainment purposes a la keep the masses happy.

The TV team is O.K. Kasper doesn’t do much for me one way or another, Brenly states the obviously a lot. Stone was (is) much better at anticipating things before they happen.

I’ve already given my opinions of Farmer and Singleton.

Hawk still can be very enthusiastic when he wants to be but I think age is starting to factor into his broadcasts. I also am frankly getting tired of his ‘excuses,’ for want of a better word and the long silences when he’s mad at how things are going. ‘Dadgumit, he JUST missed it…’ (LOL, right…) When the team is lousy Hawk, call it like it is (I remember Harry and Jimmy you understand.)

I think DJ has improved from when he started but for some reason (maybe because of his pairing with Hawk) to me, he sounds MUCH better, with more life when he’s doing a Fox game. It’s almost like Hawk overpowers his ability to do his job.

Steve Stone again with no disrespect would improve the broadcasts on either radio or TV.

Does that satisfy you?

Mark Liptak

According to the Sun-Times, Kenny says no on Arod, thank goodness. He’s not worth the pricetag.

a rod out, tigers get shortstop, boston 2 centerfielders, joe crede to n y? yankees 2 centerfielders, a lot could happen in the off season , one move can lead to many moves, as atlanta stated when they traded, Yankees could make a lot of moves with turmoil there,

Based on a story at White Sox.com and his refusal to play winter ball it appears Brian Anderson’s days are now numbered.

Mark Liptak

Grinderstad and Myers had their options declined! Halleluia!

I can see why the tigers would want Guillen at 1st and need someone like Renteria to fill the hole, but I think they may have hurt themselves dealing that pitcher. He did okay something like 3-1 this season. What was it, Jaz Jurgens or something? For a short term push into the playoffs, but with pitching being what it is, I’d have asked for more. Not a good long term deal…

Can no one help me with my October 27, 2007 question about how to get the final out ringtone for my husband? I hoped some techno experienced White Sox fans were out there reading who could help!

tpsoxfans…Two ways you may be able to get an answer to your dilemma…One…You can e-mail Scott a sreifert@chisox.com
He may be able to steer you to the proper channels…

Two… You can scroll up to the top of this page and click on the icon which states”Final Out Ringtone”…that may be what you need to do…

Brother Liptak,out in the wilds of Idaho…Thank you for your response…I apologize for getting testy about it…I just wanted to hear from someone who has been in the business, and in whose opinion I place good trust…

Number three…The dismantiling of “the bullpen from ****” is beginning, with the dismissal of Myers and the other pitcher whose name escapes me for the moment…

Now, if they could only find a way to cut loose of everyone else, save for Manchild,Wasserman and Logan,possibly Thornton as well…(Yes, kiddies, that would mean saying goom-bye to “Space Mountain”Mac Dougal)then building up with reserves from small,innocuous deals or from those ready to come off the farm…then they mave have something… Of course, it would always help to have the starters learn to go more than 5 or 6 innings as well… As to Erstad, he messed himself up in two ways…One, getting hurt in Tucson and missing time that way…Two, by the things he said at the end of the year…

If you have a bad taste in your mouth,wait until you’re gone first—then spew forth…after first applying the mouthwash of thinking and common sense…Something these jamokes(right back at ya, jk…)have not learned to do…

As to not getting A-Rod,well, let’s just put it this way…Jay wants him and Kobe Bryant like David wanted Bathsheeba…and anything that the Weathervane wants so badly…

Just do the opposite…

Tom:

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it.

Interesting story by Joe Cowley in the Sun Times today…Kenny meets with Hunter next week, may have already spoken to Rowand’s folks, looking at Eckstein and may re-sign Uribe with the intention of moving him to 2nd or 3rd.

The off season is heating up. For the Sox it can’t come to soon.

Mark Liptak

I may have the wrong read on the off season but it looks like one of the most potentially active off seasons in recent memory. N Y situation, Dodger’s hiring Joe T. team needs Phil. Dodgers, SF new direction, Whited Sox plus I have the sense many teams like the white sox have a more than usual bitter taste after last yr. St Louis, Cubs, Mets all of the close wild card races let many teams , seattle feeling they were close and need to make more moves. On the Uribe note I will probably watch less baseball if Uribe is an everyday player as he takes the fun away for me, doing so many little things wrong is frustration that I do not need.

Say what you want about Uribe, but he has a rocket for an arm. If the Sox get Eckstein (who I absolutely hate) there will be far more infield hits because he pretty much throws like a sally.

Steve:

Of course the flip side could be that Eckstein actually gets on base…can bunt…advance runners, you know the things that Ozzie Guillen himself just a short time ago stated the Sox were going to do in 2008.

“Ozzie-Ball.”

The top and bottom of the order simply MUST do these things or 2008 is going to be a repeat of 2007.

Do you take a chance that Uribe finally has learned how to take a walk, get on base, bunt, cuts down on his strikeouts? Let alone show up in shape for a change (the physical differences between 2005 and 2007 are striking with him)

I don’t know the answer to that..that’s why Kenny makes the big bucks.

Mark Liptak

I see where you are coming from mark, but I just wish that they would get somebody other then eckstein. I would have liked to see renteria on the sox, but detroit beat kenny to the punch.

Renteria would have been good, still eckstein seems to be a winner or has just been lucky with teams.

I’m confident the Sox will trade for Furcal. Uribe’s option will not be taken.

Thanks, Tom! I couldn’t find Scott’s email address anywhere. I was actually thinking that you had all probably downloaded it for yourselves already.

Furcal would be almost ideal on the field.

A story at sportsbusinessdaily.com is reporting that Ed Goren the president of FOX Sports, say that FOX will ask MLB to start World Series games after NINE PM in the East.

He says ratings data shows there are more viewers after 11 PM. The only demographic that shows a decline after 11 PM is over 55

He also says the ratings breakdown shows more children under 17 watching after 11 PM which proves that kids are watching.

—–

But will they be watching at 2AM? LOL

Seriously could they possibly be this stupid? And could MLB possibly be as dumb as to say ‘OK”?????

Mark Liptak

First of all, to the members of the Ryan Bukvich Fan Club, I apologize for forgetting the name of your hero in my post of the 1st of Nov. …but he did such a memorable job that the team cut him completely loose after the Series…what does that say about him ?
Secondly… Brother Liptak…You know as well as I do…and as well as the baseball viewing public does now…that FOX calls the shots…and if they wanted Bud Selig and “the usual gane of idiots” at MLB to perform an anatomically impossible act upon themselves…THEY WOULD DO IT !!!

It is simply another case of the tail wagging the dog…

If I knew how to type…the word would be “gang”, not “gane”…
But FOX is not paying me bundles of money to schmooze up to them and tell them how great they are…and what fantastic programming ideas they have…

For FOX, three of the last four World Serious have been exactly what they deserve…

money LOSERS…

You see, gang…if the Series only goes the minimum four games, TV doesn’t make a cent out of it…(I believe I’m right in that assumption, aren’t I, Brother Liptak?)

And for all the demands that FOX makes MLB go through, as well as the other “guilt by associates”(aka ESPN(I know, Mark, your FAVORITES)and now TBS)…they deserve every non-dollar that comes past…

Now, getting back to the reason for this site to exist…(and it ISN’T to slam Jay or FOX or each other…at least, not ALL the time for the first two)…Is there anyone else out there in WS Universe who would feel that if Kenny were to woo Hunter to come down from Team Rah-Rah to be with the boys that it would be similar to the feeling way back when when Dennis Rodman was persuaded by Jerry Krause to come and play with the Bulls?…and by that I mean…when he was with the other guys(Pistons, etc…)the fans here hated his guts…but when he joined the home town team…INSTANTLY, he became a hero(or,in “Looney Tunes” case, a heroine…)…
It could be the same story with Torri(I apologize for the rhyme…)…

Heck, I already like Hunter and I can’t help it. Despite his obvious reasoning in leaving Minnesota… However, Ken W. has his work cut out for him since Hunter has only declared that he’s interested in playing on half the teams in the League, such as Texas, Washington, the South Side and Atlanta. I think I’ve also heard Detroit, but not from any ‘official’ source. He also tends to use the same verbage in all cases. He mentioned Dye with the Sox and Young with the Nationals and how much he’d love to play alongside them and mentioned cities with large middle class african-american populations (except New York I think). I feel it will come down to money, period. I’m not sure how far Kenny would push this, my guess is not far enough.

Oh, and how dead on is that map of fandom that MLB put up, at least in the Midwest and Southeast. I just don’t know about the rest.

I had gone to school in Minnesota from 04-07 and my dislike for Torii Hunter grew even stronger. He was often whining in the news and he would also work to make himself look good in a play, not work to make the play. Without question he purposely slams himself into walls even when he has time to hold up, but he works for those instant replays, hense the fact he is often injured.

The real fans who closely follow the Twins (there aren’t many up there) do not like him, the casual fans eat him up.

Offensively he can be really good as he was in this contract year, however I feel like in my personal opinion I would rather not have us sign him for a ton of money. Save it for Johan after next season.

Also this isn’t meant to start a quarrel but, I stand up for Bud Selig and would like to redact the term idiot in reference to him. Baseball has become very very very big since he’s been in charge.

-Mark

I agree, personally do not think Hunter would be worth the money. A lot of other types of deals could net a better gain in the club. Young players that are coming on if only you have the talent evauation guys to net them.

I was listening to the radio this morning and supposedly there is a trade rumor out there about Johnny Damon coming to the White Sox. Has anyone heard anything about that? Mark L – have you?

Marie

Marie:

Yes I have. I have some reservations about it unless the Yankees are willing to pick up the bulk of his 12 million a year salary. He’s 34 (I think…)

But I also understand that for the next few years the Sox are between a rock and a hard place.

Until the minor league system actually starts producing major league caliber players or unless management is willing to bump the payroll up to the 120-130 million range, the Sox may be forced into taking gambles, being creative and so forth to try to fill the numerous holes on the big league roster.

Even after the 2004 season I don’t remember as many issues as with this team at this time period.

Mark Liptak

there is a glut of center fielders available this yr. I would go for Fukudome the Japanese star of the the world classic, liked what I saw there, but not sure anymore Japanese players want anything to do with the WS after seeing what happened to the last 2. After him Crisp would seem to be the cheapest quality guy available in a trade for a mid prospect. Personally I would like to see a major overhaul, couse been saying that since way before the all star break.

I think Fukudome had surgery in August and may not be at full health, I can’t remember whether or not he’d be good to go.

mgrothendick…If the man who is called the Commisioner of Major League Baseball had any juevos whatsoever that All-Star Game is his own hometown of Milwaukee would have CONTINUED to a conclusion…instead, he wienied out and said it was a tie…thus the ruling from on high since that whichever league wins the All-Star game gets home field advantage in the World Series…even though it may have helped the White Sox in ’05, I still think it’s an asinine way of doing things…and, in addition,Mr Selig and the others involved could have suspected something was going on of an nature against the rules when not only guys like Mc Guire and Sosa and Bonds were hitting home runs by the bunch, but guys who never hit more than ten in their entire professional careers were hitting titanic shots…the Commissioner could have done some sort of investigation hten, BUT…the turnstiles were clicking because people like to see offense,home runs and 18 to 14 scores from some place other than the NFL…So Mr Selig looked the other way…
The only thing I will credit him with doing correctly is allowing the wild card into the post season structure…because this has kept the breath of hope alive in cities who,previously,would be so far behind in the standings that no one but the grounds crew and the concessionaires would be watching…

Besides, Mark,…Selig is a former used car salesman…and how many of those types do people trust?

Man cabrera on market from marlins, they want prospects why would the WS not be in that hunt? Guy is 24 , I love trading for young guys but getting rid of cabrera is dumb, how could they ever draw fans. Anyway I would go for that trade if marlins are interested that young of the player of the caliber does not come around very often.

If the sox got cabrera I’d poop my pants, 1) because he is so amazing and so young, and 2) because our bad farm system would be even more awful. To realistically get him we’d have to probably trade Fields with De Los Santos, and Carter. Is he worth our future?

Would we leave him at third? Or move him back to outfield? He’s probably not a realistic possibility, but we can still smile and get getty with this most recent rumor/idea.

Tom- I think whether or not Selig’s actions (or lack there of) in relation to steroids in baseball can be taken different ways.

To people like you and I who will always love baseball and always follow it, he seems like a bad guy, letting it get out of hand and ruining the integrity of the game.

However in another aspect he looked away from something that in some ways brought many more fans to baseball. I’m young (22) and I’m not looking at any specific statistics so I could be wrong because I haven’t followed baseball for 30+ years, but I get the impression that the game was not as big as it is now across the country and across the world.

If this is true, I think he deserves credit for making baseball so huge while he was in charge.

However I definitely see your point toward him not preserving the integrity of the game. I guess the opinion of his effect on baseball can be a very subjective thing.

My money is still resting on the fact that we will trade for Furcal, but I really really really hope we can somehow get Miguel Tejada. Oh that would be nice, but doubtful.

id pick up uribe’s option and sign Hunter. unless of course you can trade for Tejada but you better make up your mind soon and not get caught with your pants down!

if somehow they could get cabrera that would be outstanding. they could take our whole minor league system for him as far as i am concerned.

i am pretty pumped that the offseason is here. ive been waiting for this since may for god sakes!!!!

personally id go with owens in left hunter in center dye in right crede at third uribe short richar 2nd and fields first thome dh aj catch. i think paulie could get a couple of decent arms from the right team. pull the trigger

Oh…you don’t have any attachment to good ole Konerko?

I don’t want him gone, I’d rather see Thome gone if we need to trade a big bat, athough Jim got the LNC.

I mean *LNTC

Limited No Trade Clause

ESPN Radio in reporting the Sox have picked up the option on Juan Uribe.

I’d like to think Kenny is covering himself and that changes will be forthcoming involving him in the future.

I’d like to think that, but one never knows does one?

I mean the Sox desperately need balance in the lineup, they simply MUST have guys in the top two and bottom two spots of the order who can get on base, run, bunt, steal….Juan Uribe does NONE of the things that Ozzie wants to do.

On the surface this move makes absolutely ZERO sense…however there may be more to come in the future, perhaps using Uribe as part of a trade.

I certainly hope someone is willing to take an out of shape, free swinging strike out machine off our hands.

Mark Liptak

Welcome back Sammy Sosa Jr…..

Ugh, Mark, if we did trade him as you suggested that would be so great, but for some reason I’m a bit doubtful on that. I think this move just bothers me because it probably means we will be signing Hunter. I really really hope not.

Hello everyone, it’s been a long time. Trying to recover from that awful season was difficult, and wanted to stay away from the negative thinking for a while, so now I am pumped and ready for the wheeling and dealing before the 2008 season.

Unless the Uribe signing is a cover your butt move in case they can’t deal for **** then we really have to wonder about our GM and if he is even watching the games. I’d like to think also that this is a value signing for some other team. My hope is that he and a pitcher will be headed to Baltimore for Tejada. At $4.5 mil that should make him easier to deal.

I really am hoping we can pull off a deal with Hunter. I think having a guy like that would give this team some swagger, something that we truly lacked in 2007. He won’t be a great average hitter, but the defense he can give the Sox will surely make up for that. Having Rowand back would be nice, but Hunter is definitely an upgrade.

A few more general comments on bringing back Uribe. Just for what it may be worth.

I think there is something of a disconnect going on between Ozzie and Kenny.

During this past season repeatedly, Ozzie publicly stated that he can’t bunt or hit and run (to use two specific examples) because the team simply can’t execute these things.

Then this off season Ozzie makes a highly publicized statement saying that this team WILL get back to the basics for 2008. That he was “tired” of 200 home runs a year as the only way to score runs, that he was “tired” of all the strike outs.

Ozzie has made it abundantly clear the type of team he wants. At this point in time (and again I state AT THIS POINT) is he getting it?

Does bringing back Uribe move the Sox one iota closer to what Ozzie has publicly stated? Will Uribe suddenly learn how to bunt, get on base, hit and run, steal? **** even just strike out less?

Something isn’t right between what is being said to the public and what is taking place. We’ll see what happens in the future but bringing back basically the same team that has failed since July 2006 doesn’t appear to be a good idea, at least to me.

It’s a long off season though and the final verdict is still out there.

Mark Liptak

Milpatak , I totally agree with you, having said that I am not surprised that they resigned uribe, as it is the same old trend as you stated. What other team in major league baseball would want uribe for 4 + million a yr, I say no team in baseball other than the ws. and that is a disconnect as you so well stated.

ps uribe is the laughing stock of other team, I hear other team announces commenting on him , he swings at everything from his chin to his toes, stikes out wildly several times a game, cannot bunt after yrs, overweight, no situational hitter , poor to fair range, head out of the game. +’s streaky , with the occassional long ball, bad, bad, bad,

oh forgot yes he does have a good arm.

JimD- Unfortunately Kenny said today that the Sox are no longer interested in Tejada because of his declining numbers.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2474

I wish they were, I think he can still knock in a 100 without too much trouble. But who knows, just because he says they dont want him, doesnt mean hes telling the truth.

I dunno, disconnect or whatever, I’m thinking more of the same. And saving 500,000 dollars? Going to payroll? Seriously. I think Williams AND Ozzie think they know something no one else on God’s green earth do. Uribe is really good….. I cringed when i saw this news. They won’t pay 4.5 mil for this guy and NOT play him everyday. And I don’t think anyone would take him in trade…..

The whole Ozzie saying he wants to get back to small ball, I think reminds me of the Garner-Astros handshake comments. Just not thought out and saying what popped into his head when he was uncomfortable or something like that. i think Ozzie wanted Uribe back….

mgrothendick,
Good info, thanks! I’m hoping KW is trying to lower Tejada’s value with his comments. Yeah Tejada’s numbers have dropped, but he may be a guy that needs a change of scenery to get some life back in his bat. Back in Oakland he was playing on a team that was competitive every year. He then goes to Baltimore who has no shot at winning in that division. Losing constantly can hurt the performance of even the best players. Plus US Cellular is a much better park for righty power hitters than Camden Yards. May help boost his numbers.

Greetings to all! Been kinda busy since the absolutely wonderful blog night.

A few thoughts – Uribe may not be the best shortstop in baseball, but he makes the key plays most of the time (go back and watch the last two outs of the 05 World Series), and his hitting *could* improve with useful coaching. Those of you who read “Moneyball,” should recall that Billy Beane called Miguel Tejada “Mr. Swings at Everything.” Doesn’t sound like a major improvement over Uribe. As someone who watched a *lot* of A’s games while Tejada played with them, I can tell you that he frequently did *not* come through with clutch hits, and made major errors in the field by trying to play more than his own position. These errors tended to happen even more often in the first round of the postseason. Remember that while Tejada has several years postseason experience, none of that goes beyond the first round. Obviously, I am *not* blaming him, personally, for the A’s failure to make it past the first round year in and year out – just saying he may not be the “impact player” some seem to think he is. Personally, I wouldn’t trade Uribe, at his age and potential, for Tejada today.

From a defensive perspective, and also for the future, I have real concern about third base. Josh Fields is a terrific youngster, but I don’t know whether he will ever be the defensive player Crede was. That said, I realize it is an open questions whether Crede will be the same defensive player, post surgery, that he was before. I honestly don’t envy Kenny Williams the decision he has to make. I just wish the decision could be more of a baseball decision, and less of a financial one. (No, I’m not naive about baseball being a business. But I’m not an accountant, I’m a *fan*!) A really great defensive third baseman can kill a whole lot of opposition rallies by stopping extra-base hits. A really great third baseman can make your starting pitchers look even better than they are.

Finally, as a very long time Sox fan, I can’t help thinking about the Sox having to play *against* Joe Crede, or watch him have an all-star career in another uniform. In my long life as a fan, I’ve seen waaayyy too many ex-Sox players go on to have brilliant careers elsewhere! Don’t know why that is, but for years it seemed the Sox were the “farm system” for the rest of MLB. Perhaps Mr. Liptak, who has an elegant mastery of all statistics, can confirm or deny my impression on this subject.

Via Rotowire:

The Sox have been labeled as interested in Yasuhiko Yabuta from Japan. He’s a 34 year old right handed reliever.

Stats:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/Y/yasuhiko-yabuta.shtml

Personally I wouldn’t mind this signing if it was brief, I doubt the guy would do a one year deal, but maybe sign for two. Usually the Japanese pitchers seem effective for most of their first season. Maybe we could trade him after a year.

I am happy with the Uribe signing. Out of the 9 spot in the order he is a powerful player that drives in a ton of runs. considering he is batting 9th it is a huge advantage. You guys wanted eckstien who isnt half the player uribe is in the field. Uribe is a top glove man with a cannon of an arm. if they do get tejada which i highly doubt then he can either be used in the trade or move over and play second base for a season. the uribe option had to be picked up.

things get stranger and stranger, what is wrong with giving the team the option to put Fields in left field? He has the basics for a good left fielder, to say that is no option makes no sense. Then to say Fields is bad defensively at third base in a backhand way further’s the confusion. One would conclude from what KW said that Josh is gone, but I do not believe that. Is KW really GM material , I think that question needs to be asked.

the other alternative would be to put Josh at first base and trade Paulie, what else is there help me out here.

That last idea is very possible dleeun, Paulie has specified 6 teams that he cannot be traded too in his contract, but other than that it is very possible. There have been plenty of rumors of him going to LA.

Personally I do not want Paulie gone, but we’ll see….

Folks:

We all have to get used to the idea that this is Joe Crede’s last year with the Sox.

According to comments from Kenny he tried to start exploratory conversations with Joe’s agent this past season after the back injury and in his own words, “they did not go well.”

It is a fact that the MO of Scott Boras is to let his players get to the open market and then see what becomes available.

If Joe is healthy Kenny will deal him for something rather then lose him for nothing or at best a draft pick.

What’s ironic in all this is a comment a few years ago from Joe himself that (and I’m paraphrasing) ‘he’d change agents if he thought that was becomming an issue towards staying with the Sox.’

Given the history or lack of same between the White Sox and Scott Boras it is a MAJOR issue…yet Joe has retained his services.

You can draw your own conclusions.

And yes I’ll be sorry to see Joe leave as well but the odds are now heavily tilted in favor of that happening.

Mark Liptak

It has been reported that the talk between KW nad Boras was so bad and short that Boras would not even hear a number from the Sox to extend Crede.

After all his struggles as we watched Crede grow up many of us have really grown to adore him as he became a very good player for the Sox, but he is as good as gone. Mark is right, Boras is interfering with Crede staying here, and there is no word of a change of representation. Hopefully the Sox can get something good for him and let Fields play 3rd. He may not be the best defensive 3rd baseman, but he already looks to be a better hitter.

Fields grew leaps and bounds at the plate this year as his season progressed. He made jumps in half a season that it took Crede 2 or 3 years. But we’ll see what happens as the offseason progresses.

Stats show that Crede played a game at SS in ’05? Does anyone remember this? I definitely do not, so I’m just curious what situation brought that up. It’s always interesting to see players in different spots than you are used to seeing them in.

That game was 4/27/05 in Oakland on a getaway day when Uribe was hurting and Iguchi was out for some reason. Widger played 3rd that day. Dye even played an inning at SS, but Crede started at SS that game. They were even joking that they might have to activate Ozzie for one game.

Here is a link to the boxscore:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200504270.shtml

Ahhhh, I kind of remember that now with Dye coming in from RF and talk of Ozzie. I think a bunch of people were sick during that time.

Well, I side with the people who think bringing back most or all of last yr,’s team is very wrong. First they are a yr. older, think Jim T. is going to have a better yr. doubt it. Konerko a better yr. maybe slightly. Uribe no.
AJ had a pretty good yr., so doubt a better one. Crede ?

2nd base ? Dye maybe but is usually a slow starter. Where oh where is this team suppose to have such a good core. Jose, yr older, maybe better. Man we need a real overhaul

lip, I think that you are right, that is why I keep complaining, if I thought it was going to happen, I would say less. Mean while, read the cubs are interested in fukudome the japanese outfielder, I hate that as he could turn out great, even if it is a gamble. change of subject, I would say that baseball players assoc. has a pt. about poss. tampering in the free agent market, seems kind of funny the media leaks about 11 free agents possible hgh links, that along with selig’s desire to keep prices down looks fishy.

I can see the GM’s side for wanting to know these 11 free agents who are in the Mitchell Report. There really has yet to be a set and agreed to punishment if there even will be one. When spending millions of dollars on free agents the GM’s would rather err on the side of caution than possibly risk losing someone for an extended period of time. You don’t sign someone without a physical. One would think the same idea would apply to a possible suspension. Look at Mike Cameron. He is going to take a hit because of his impending suspension.

I think they are getting at the collusion possibility because of A-Rod. The owners are kind of like “the old boys club” Many are friends with Selig. They may try to drive down the asking price for A-Rod in turn hoping to drive down salaries as a whole. Will it work? I highly doubt it, but at some point something will have to turn this market downward otherwise they are going to price out the common fan.

You got to have some kinda gall to ask for what A-rod is wanting, 10 years at an unsightly rate. The Owners, let them collude, even if successful I don’t think we the average fans would see a drop in the cost of….well, anything regarding this sport in the coming years. Oh well….

Hoped to see more action on roster changes. Kenny loved to talk about change the first half of this season and we still have seen very little. Would have liked to seen a change at SS. Less HRs and more contact hitting from a potential SS could have only helped a team that couldn’t get on base. Wouldn’t mind us shopping Konerko but I doubt it. And I don’t think we’d be able to get anything outstanding for Thome. Nothing against any of these guys. Would like to see Hunter and Dye together, but Hunter I think is interested in his own pay day. I’m not so interested that our payroll skyrocket, but more that the lineup and team is reworked. Which isn’t happening. Changing CF will only help but not turn around this years problems. Would have been nice to see a new SS. What’s going on with 2B? Is that still Richar? wouldn’t mind Fields starting 3rd with all the Boras action talked of lately. All I can say is with the way things are looking, not sure that things will be better next year. I hope KW can surprise me, cause all I see is he’s afraid of making changes all of a sudden. Hope I’m wrong…

Torii Hunter was interviewed this week on the Waddle & Silvy show on ESPN1000. From that interview I gathered that it is between the Sox and Texas, and money is important, but he wants to win and play on a field he likes and a park he likes to hit in. He made comments about how great our field is and that he has always hit well here. He is scheduled to talk to KW on Sunday. Obviusly he won’t commit to anything before he can negotiate, but he sure sounded like he wanted to be here.

The guy was very funny and his attitude was awesome. He had already ruled out any parks with an unclimbable wall in CF. Is he not the best at robbing HR’s or what? Heck having him on our team may gain us a few extra HR’s that he would normally rob!

Back when someone asked could fields play shortstop, I doubt it , but 2nd base is much easier that would not be impossible if they got on it now preparing him. Of course it is a stretch but in a lot of ways it would make sense. I liked Richar but he looks at least a yr away. hope I am wrong about that.

dleeun has proved once again what a tool he is. Putting fields at second base? he can’t even handle third base. he can’t handle left field. he is one of the worst defensive players i have ever seen. he made carlos lee look like torii hunter in left last year. fields at best may be able to move to first. that means konerko should be traded. but then you would have to sign crede and thats not going to happen. maybe if the sox can land a decent third baseman they can trade konerko and move fields to first. makes the most sense to me.

dleeun has proved once again what a tool he is. Putting fields at second base? he can’t even handle third base. he can’t handle left field. he is one of the worst defensive players i have ever seen. he made carlos lee look like torii hunter in left last year. fields at best may be able to move to first. that means konerko should be traded. but then you would have to sign crede and thats not going to happen. maybe if the sox can land a decent third baseman they can trade konerko and move fields to first. makes the most sense to me.

some musings from Az fall league country….. all the recent posts have me anxiously waiting for some sort of move that makes a statement. i think Hunter would be great. i agree that it would have been good to see a better bat at short. what we have seen these past three years doesn’t make me optomistic about a blockbuster trade or even an impact trade. what we seem to get is players to tweak the team like Mckowiak and Cintron and Mcdougal for Gload was a very bad deal for US! i don’t expect to see anything more than the above though, that seems to be KW’s M.O. like all the rest of you though, i’m wishing and hoping that something more substantial is added for ’08 or i too fear that we will be doomed to repeat last year. it’s finally cooling off here too! down into the high 70′s for the high now… very nice, but not exactly “hot stove” weather…. you all will have to keep stoking that furnace for us out here. until later….. j.k. from tucson….

keno is back with his dumb responses to other people’s musings, as he does not have the intellect or manners to take posts for what they are, in many cases just throwing out possible senarios this time of yr.

I’ve heard Hunter on ESPN radio before as well, and I liked his optimistic attitude. He was also pretty respectful.

I did think mackowiak deserved more time on the southside as he wasn’t as bad as the other two (Cintron, Gonzalez). But I guess he was the only guy we could get something for. By the way, what’d we get in return because I can’t remember. That is not one of Williams more daring trades if you can’t even remember what the deal was. It seems that’s the only trades we’ve seen lately.

Oh and with this gap at 2nd, i wonder if iguchi may be coming back. Wonder if the Damon/Crede thing may happen, I’d be okay with something interesting like that, though, yes it would probably nip us in the rear. But hey, that’s half the entertainment is seeing these things change.

Hunter is too old. He is about 50 years old in Astroturf years. Never have liked him. Anyone remember him costing the Twins pennant two years ago, giving up an inside the park HR when he should have pulled up and played the ball on one hop. He is a showboat and an a-hole. The hit he put on Burke was a CHEAP shot. (something Ozzie should have come out and said at the time) Burke was not expecting the hit because he was giving up the plate, the ball was not there yet and the Twins already had a 3 run lead in the late innings. It was cheap and it could have cost someone their career. Plus, and most importantly, any grown man who gets braces is a dip-sh#t and should have eggs thrown at him. After last year the only thing we as fans should settle for is Carl Crawford. Anything else is a disappointment. Rowand would be ok but TB needs pitching and has a glut of outfielders and no money to sign Crawford after next hear. Trade for him and sign him for 6 years.

Fields looked really bad at times last year. He needs to learn to give himself better hops and he could be very solid. He seemed to loose a little confidence but I have also seen him look extraordinary at times.

Lastly, Bud Selig should be buried alive or whatever you call his current state. What a dim wit. Although you have to respect anyone brave enough to defend him.

The ESPN ombudsman just came out with a new column. One of her points was the excessive Yankee coverage. Obviously she ‘gets it’

“Narrowing the focus to teams with the largest fan bases, assuming ratings will diminish if focus veers from them, becomes self-fulfilling. We don’t get to know other teams, their players, a sense of what is at stake for them or their community — all the things that drive interest and ratings. Of the Colorado Rockies, on the brink of the World Series, several commentators boasted, “I can’t name three players on the team.” Tired of that dismissive crack, one viewer from Utah fired off this message: “As employees of the ‘world-wide leader,’ you may want to consider how un-professional and myopic your coverage of the MLB playoffs has been. I’m pretty sure that if my full-time job was as a sportswriter, I’d be able to name the starting lineups for all MLB teams.”

Mark Liptak

BillB- You’re right, Hunter does have a bad attitude a lot of the time and is a showboat, looking for the highlight play, not looking to help his team. The fans that actually are fans in Minnesota do not like him, the badwagoners love him and eat him up.

It will be the same here when he signs. I think those of us who don’t like him just have to accept his presence and try our best to be happy with what he can give us because it is looking like he is going to be on the team more than anywhere else.

crawford for 1/2 the money of hunter makes a lot of sense but does kw have any?

Yes , I am bitter about KW, for example for what I heard on the boston site before the all star game we could easily have had Ellsbury and Buchloz for garland and maybe one more guy, but nothing proactive was done. Later in the season he pitches a no hitter and ellsbury produces ,way to late now , All last season some great deals could have been made and all he could say is nothing until the offseason , a good deal is a good deal whenever you get the opportunity.

theres no way we would have gotten ellsbury or buchholz for garland, let alone both. Both of those guys are gonna be way better than garland, boston just isnt gonna give up promising young players who they will have control over for a while

dleeun – At the time the Red Sox were not willing to deal Clay Bucholz. They have had many requests for him, but there is no chance they are letting him go, and the White Sox never had a shot at him. That was part of the reason nothing was done with them because KW wanted him, but Boston was not willing to part with him.

mgroeth – Because I am very interested in seeing Hunter here does that make me a bandwagon fan? AJ was notorious for having a bad attitude before he came here and that move sure worked out well. Both of them are winners. They know how to play the game having spent so much time in Minnesota where they obviously teach the game in their system much better than the Sox do.

Sure I’d love to have Carl Crawford, but for one he won’t be half the price for long, and secondly he plays left field. Unless they are going to keep Owens in center and get Crawford for left. I’d be for this move also, but we’d need to be sure that we could extend Crawford in the future.

No you wouldn’t be a bandwagoner, I guess I phrased that bad. I meant the bandwagoners will look at numbers alone and get excited, but they won’t see the little things like what someone mentioned a while ago, when Hunter tried to dive for a flyball with a man on first and two out that could have been a non-run scoring single in the playoffs but he wasn’t even that close and it costed them an inside the park home run and the game.

mms://a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2006/open/teams06/oak/video/100406_oakmin_kotsay2_350.wmv

Good point on the AJ thing though.

I really don’t want to see him purposely crashing into walls for the instant replays, at what we’d be paying him I don’t want that to be a regular thing that he’d do on purpose for fan credit.

So I guess what I don’t want really is to pay him as much as he wants, thats the big thing. On the field, if he is signed I think he will help the team. I just am not looking forward to the contract and the overblown attempts to make a great play.

If we sign him, I’ll probably still wind up liking him, just not his money, unless he puts up better numbers than he ever has before.

Lastly, this is kind of sad, his story about his dad.

http://www.toriihunter48.com/

Well, Hunter and AJ are gamers anyway. I agree, I never thought I could stomach AJ, but well, after 2005, whatever. Torii? Who knows, I would regret seeing too much money spent on him, but maybe he’s grown up alittle. And yes, Minnesota does school some good ballplayers. Makes me wonder whats going on with our farm system.

Lowell out on the market now, I would guess on the yankees showing some interest.

Never thought I’d see people talking about our surplus of quality arms, but I guess all the hype about ‘quality starts’ was some pre advertising. Wonder if we’ll be able to move any pitchers… that we’d prefer not to hang onto.

you guys are talking like Hunter is ours already. i don’t have the advantage of Chicago newspapers or radio here so maybe you all know something i don’t, so please enlighten me with some info. one thing i don’t get though is the money thing for Hunter: some of you are worrying that we would be spending too much for him. i think he would be a definate upgrade to our outfield period. i remember when everyone said spend whatever it took to resign Paulie two years ago and then the same sentimate for Mark last season, so why would we be spending too much for Tori IF we got him?

i agree completely with jimdev about the right way to play in minn., and lastly, yeah it would be great to package one of our inning eaters like Jose for a quality player, whomever that turns out to be… talk to you all later. j.k. from tucson…..

Wasn’t too worried about Paulie resigning 2 years back, just me though. But Buerhle and the way pitching is now, sounds like a good investment in the coming years. Good mechanics, home discount, solid bookend pitcher, just sounds good for the longterm.

Hunter, I dunno, I’d like to see him here, but whether he’s here or not I don’t see CF alone dictating how we do next year. I guess it’s more the length of the contract along with the money. Hunter’s after something like 5 years, the Twins would only offer 3? I guess I am hoping that a balanced focus on the team overall supercedes the focus on one guy.

It’s like when they resigned Uribe, said he was the best option. I think he was the easiest option they had. There were comparable players (different attributes, pros & cons) but we didn’t take a risk, just for the ease of a one year deal. I hope Hunter doesn’t turn out to be the only major change and then gets used by the front office as a cop-out for why more wasn’t done.

pmanher, I disagree at the time both ellsbury and bucholtz were more unproven qualities and Garland was very well tested quality arm, the money means less to boston and they were in the market to upgrade their pitching at that time. Now is totally different ellsbury has becoming their starting center fielder. I am going by what was said in boston at the time of the Mark B. possible trade and garland was mentioned also.

I would like Hunter before Rowand though, Hunter is a proven hitter in the AL, which to me means more. Rowand’s career year was in the NL. Wouldn’t mind either though.

I still think Fukudome is the better baseball player and the cubs want him bad, so the sox should at least drive his price up if nothing more than to make the cubs pay. His on base % is great and we already have a team , that is very bad in getting on base thome the exception.

Well, a day late (perhaps a month) and the proverbial dollar short, but…
I have NEVER liked Hunter. HOWEVER, it’s for 1 major reason..He is a complete Sox-killer! I think his transition here will be as successful as AJ’s. We hated him before him came, and now he’s one of the most well-liked player. Hope everyone is well…didn’t realize the blog would be hopping so much after the season. I don’t think it was like this the last 2 years… -Dawn

hey Dawn, good to hear from you. you are absolutely right about more traffic this off season. that’s due to us “needing” to make a move to improve rather than standing pat for the most part and running with a proven winner. now that we are not a winner we need to get back to that place. i still would like to know something concrete concerning Hunter. i haven’t read or heard anything here to indicate that a deal is imminent. thanks, j.k.

Dleeun- The White Sox were hoping to get Buchholz and Ellsbury in return for Buehrle, but the Red Sox didn’t want to. There was no way that this trade was going to realistically happen. Both were the top picks of ’05 for Boston so they weren’t about to ship out their biggest farm tools for half a season of Buehrle.

Ellsbury actually was very good prior to coming up to the major league level, his performance there was not a surprise or anything new. The ChiSox wanted it to happen, but at no point was Boston willing. Buchholz was also one of the biggest pitching prospects in baseball, both of their abilities shown at the major league level reflected what they did in the minors.

mgrothendick, I disagree , believe that we could have had them for buehrle or garland which to me was and is reasonable, two or three top prospects for a good established pitcher is normal. People are talking 3 to 5 for santana.

hunter and or rowand and or andruw and or mike cameron are all better options than the garbage that has been in left field since el cabillo left. dleeun again proves that he is a narcotic user when he suggested that the sox go after someone just to drive up the price on the cubs. who cares what the cubs do/pay. i say go after hunter he has the attitude the sox are desperately missing. ozzie pussed out back then when he wouldnt retaliate on hunter and it put the sox in a shell for the rest of the year. hopefully he can do the same to the tigers or the indians.

with no answer to my question about Hunter, i will assume that there is nothing imminent pending. see you all tomorrow. j.k.

I stated earlier that my guess fukudome is the best outfielder available, I doubt the sox have enough creativity to go after him, but unfortunately the cubs seem to want him badly , I have it on a good source that keno is an 11 yr old know it all kid, so do not take him too seriously.

Klein – The only sure thing right now with Hunter is that the Sox are expected to make an offer some time in the next week or two for about $15mil per year for 4 to 5 years. He wants 5, but if the Sox give him 5, the 5th year will most likely be some sort of option year. The Twins were only willing to give him 3 years. I can’t see Texas giving 5 for $15 with no 5th year option. They need to focus on pitching there. Hunter is no spring chicken, but if the Sox could get 3-4 good years from him, and maybe trade him later on if they are not a contender then I think it would be a good deal.

Like I said about that interview last week on ESPN1000 he really sounded like he wanted to be here. One good thing for him playing in this division is that he would be able to get back at the Twins 19 times a year. He was pretty upset with their apparent disinterest in keeping him.

Yeah, sorry there’s no inside tip we have, just the hype of Sox media and whatnot makes it seem (in my opinion) like we are the primary team hunter wants and he is the primary player that we want, but its all speculation.

thanks, guys for the insight? on Hunter…. now i can concentrate on the really important stuff on this blog….. the bickering and backstabbing of our most recent feuding duo;aka kenwo and dleeun…. go boys, entertain us……. j.k.

Contract aside, Hunter said he wanted into a larger market team so his name’s out ‘there’ more. He’s mentioned Texas (close to home), the Washington Nationals (would like to play alongside Dimitri Young), Atlanta and the South Side of Chicago. Mentioned the large middle class african american populations of these cities being a plus.

Specifically has mentioned wanting to play alongside Jermaine Dye, having a good relationship with Ken Williams and likes interacting with Ozzie, says he’s a players manager. Just seems as though he’s said more about Chicago than other teams. for what its worth.

Oh, hey mgrothendick, what can you tell me about Hunter’s plate discipline. Last thing we need is another free swinger like Uribe. And how was Hunter as far as playing the season out? I mean as far his attitude, does he show up to play to win every game? Just asking since you seem to be up on him.

Klein – Hunter met with Kenny on Sunday. I heard Kenny gave him a DVD of the marketing blitz the Bulls did when Ben Wallace came and what the Sox did with Thome. You can also check out this article: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071108&content_id=2295904&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Apparently Mr. Williams has the proverbial erection for Mr. Hunter. That is the reason for all the chatter. Plus were are all freezing and gathering around the Hot Stove.

As far as Hunter being a free swinger, I can’t truthfully remember what he looked like in plate discipline when I used watch him when I went to school in Minnesota, but I can assure you he is not as bad as Big Butt Uribe, but for the most part all I can tell you is from stats.

Torii averages a little over a hundred strikeouts per season, that is more than average, but at the same time that can be somewhat expected from a player who hits for a bit of power.

He’s not a huge walker though, only about 40-50 per season, so for a guy who is considered good offensively, he doesn’t get that many walks, but at the same time he’s never gotten only 13 for the whole season like Uribe did a year ago.

Here’s an idea though, Hunter has batted mostly 5th and 6th in the lineup for the Twins. That may be part of the reason he hasn’t had a lot of walks. He’s put in a position to drive runs in, but behind him is absolutely no power in that Twins lineup.

Over his career, when batting,

4th he walked 9.3% of the time

5th he walked 6.7% of the time

6th he walked 4.9% of the time

Its possible that when batting later in the lineup he has a tendency to feel like he needs to do more with his bat because his teammates behind him are less likely to drive him in because there’s no power back there with Punto, Bartlett, Tyner, and Casilla.

If he played for the Sox he’d probably have Fields and Uribe (maybe crede??) behind him, they aren’t great contact hitters, but they have a decent amount of pop in their bats, its possible that Hunter might feel more comfortable taking some walks with those guys behind him.

Thats just an idea of mine, but most likely Hunter’s walks on the Sox would be about the same, 45ish. So, not great plate discipline, but not comparable to Juanita.

In comparison to free agent CFers and JO, here’s the on base percentages:

Kosuke Fukudome- .388

Kenny Lofton- .372

Aaron Rowand- .343

Andruw Jones- .342

Mike Cameron- .341

Jerry Owens- .324 (Majors), .362 (Minors)

Torii Hunter- .324

Corey Patterson- .298

As far as attitude goes, here’s my personal opinion, I think Hunter does want to win, I think that is the largest component of what he’s looking for in the team he decides to sign with. He even says that in interviews. However I personally feel like he sometimes gets caught up in his own hype as far as being a gold glove award winner and he sometimes forgets the big picture of what is necessary to help the team and instead tries to find personal glory in defensive plays. The downside of that is he can really blow it like that inside the ballpark home run and his tendency to be often injured because he likes running into walls on purpose (my opinion) for the attention.

If we are in contention I would expect to see him play right and play hard everyday, if we aren’t then I think he’s more likely to do things like dive for balls unnecessarily or try to hit home runs when he can take a walk.

So in my opinion he’d do everything he can for the Sox when it matters. He brings speed and some pop and good defense. My question is, is he really going to solve the Sox’s needs? If he’s signed is Jerry Owens going to start in LF or is he back up or back to Charlotte? With Hunter’s low OBP he can’t play as the leadoff man, we need someone with a decent OBP and speed for that role and Hunter only has one of those.

thanks for the info billb, and thanks for the stats mgro; now, you all stay warm by that stove and don’t worry about us out here, even though the temps are dropping into the 50′s now…… brrrrrr,( sorry about that). j.k.

Great interview on the broadcasting situation. Honest questions, VERY honest answers. As a fan I can appreciate this:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071114&content_id=2300383&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Mark Liptak

So what do you guys think about Singleton and Farmer? I’m curious as to how other fans feel. I do think they are much much better than when they started, but Chris still has a ways to go.

Funny how Boyer talks about how no one organization has the “ultimate call.” However, when asked if they thought about Steve Stone, Brooks ran and hid under the, “ask Paul Agase.”

Well, mgrothendick, very well put. I was kinda thinking along those lines. Makes me think twice as far as the offense Hunter will bring. I thought for a minute about how the White Sox were the exact opposite of the Red Sox at the plate. The Red Sox players could work a count and string hits together. The White Sox…. well, we won’t go there. I wouldn’t imagine Hunter in a lead off role, but I almost don’t think we need another ‘medium to big’ stick in the lineup. Maybe Rowand would be a better move.

Carl Demonte Crawford!
50 SB/15 HR/80 RBI/.315 avg./great defence/great arm.

That was a really good article on the broadcast situation. At least they are listening to us.

Stone Pony! Carl Crawford! Free Beer!

As the old bromide goes… “It’ll be a cold day in Hades when…”…Well, we aren’t in Hades, but it is COL-BIG D, jk…here in the land of Bad Rex(could the Flubs hire him as a relief pitcher?…Why not, Carlos Zambrano was out at Bears practice in Lake Forest yesterday…)and the rumor mills that keep on a turning…(Proud mary, keep on burning, yeh, rolling, yeh, rolling, yeh-heh, rolling on the…Sorry, I was channeling Tina Turner for a moment…)
I have heard tell that Mr Williams is covering his tracks for a center fielder just fine…in case the Texas (St)Rangers make Hunter an offer that he finds more appealing than the boys…

The other CF is none other than…our old friend Mr Rowand…

Now then,students, which would you rather have,just in case either would be conducive to talking the the GM at the Cell?

I have downloaded the Brooks Boyer interview, and am looking forward to perusing it(perusing… that’s an Old English term for reading,for those of you who don’t know words…but enough about the staff at the Some-Times…)

mgrothendick…Mark, your observations about the radio PBP team are very accurate…but as far as Chris still having a ways to go, the same can be said for the lead man as well…and Farmio has been at it a lot longer than Singleton…

There have been only a select few former players who have become competent broadcasters doing play by play…the late Don Drysdale,Rick Monday and Dave Campbell are the three that come to my mind the fastest…if no one knew that they had played the game for a living before going to the booth, they would have thought that they were all trained, long-time broadcasters…and not jock-wearers…

Free Beer? way to be optimistic Billb!!!

Hmmmm, I wonder if Williams plans on reinvesting the $500,000 saved on Uribe’s contract wisely. M

whoops, cut off mid comment

I think Kenny plans on re-investing that 500K on another player. Will he spend it wisely is a different question.

I think we all know Windycity was about to say: Maybe he could spend it on Free Beer for a game.

For 500K maybe we could coax Jim Parque out of retirement.

Even better, give it back to Uribe if he promises to shave that ridiculous goatee.

Or, he could bet Hawk that he can’t go 1 game with out mentioning any retired Red Sox player.

What a great question to post all your answers to: what can Kenny do with the windfall 500K he is saving?…

so it looks like it’s official. my spring training experience(nirvana) will be coming to an end all too soon. i guess i’ll have to make the two or three games at TEP that the Sox will play down here. and then there’s Pat & Marias and my golf game to miss….. farewell White Sox…. but not just yet… j.k. morning in tucson…..

Hey, KW can use that money to get Uribe some liposuction…. and idon’t think you could pay Harrelson not to talk about the BoSox. He’d probably just sit there and fume like he always does.

Reported deal per ESPN1000 is the Sox have traded Garland to the Angels for Orlando Cabrera.

I was hoping that the Garland trade would be used to fix the bullpen, but this seems like a good deal to me. It’s a nice upgrade at shorstop. Now maybe they can deal Uribe for some bullpen help.

Anyone know the status of Cabrera’s contract? How many more years does he have? They better deal Juan now. Depending on the years left for Cabrera, couldn’t the Sox have gotten a bit more? I’m not sure how I feel about the trade. Glad Cabrera is the SS though.

Wow, on other forums some people are furious about this, I don’t think its too bad. Cabrera is also in his last year of his contract, set to make 9 million. I think I heard that the Angels are giving us some money in the deal though.

Cabrera is 33 and is signed through this season. He can be a free agent after this year same as Jon.

I to wish Kenny had gotten more for a solid starting pitcher in his prime in a market where quality pitching is in short supply.

I also don’t understand this move in the context of already having Uribe on board…perhaps now he’ll be part of a deal, but if he isn’t that’s a really expensive utility guy.

However we don’t know how much cash was a part of this deal…that money if significant, can be used to help get other parts desperately needed…like the bullpen.

Thanks Jon for all that you did in Chicago!

Mark Liptak

So much for Carl Crawford.
Should have gotten a bullpen arm in the deal.

Kenny made this deal to free up money. My guess they sign Torri in the next couple of days. Someone has to need a shortstop, there were none available this year. Hopefully we can pull down another starter, I don’t know how confident I would be with Danks and Floyd in the rotation.

I don’t think this was the deal anyone was hoping for. Although it could work out ok.

Podsednik/Owens

Cabrerra

Hunter/Rowand

Dye

Thome

Konerko

Crede

Pierzinski

Richar

Not a bad lineup and defense.

I just don’t get dealing a pitcher of Garland’s quality for a position player. Still think we should have got some pitching back in return, especially since Cabrera is in his last year, too. Maybe there will be news of an extension soon.

Bill,
There is still hope for Carl Crawford. Tampa is looking more along the lines of guys like Danks, Masset or Gio Gonzalez. Someone young and CHEAP who they can control for a few years.

I heard that they may move Juan over to second if they don’t trade him. By the way, Happy Thanksgiving everyone

the white sox had to starte somewher, I do will not put this deal down until I see the whole body of work this off season. Shortstop change was a must in going foreward to a better team. I will say that two or 3 top prospects one a shortstop would have pleased me more as it would have left the team with more flexibility but a shortstop up grade is nothing to sneeze at.

I heard that the Score reported that K. Williams said he was going to try to trade Uribe.

My guess is that Kenny tries to secure a contract extension with Cabrera before free agency next offseason. A lack of free agent SS’s will give him more flexibility in trading Juan. If Kenny can get the some more this offseason and get the extension with Cabrera, the Sox will be a better team.

I am glad to see uribe and garland gone, both moped around like they did not want to be in chicago. Uribe is still here but not for long, I hope. I agee with the line of thing that says, the sox have been drafting and trading for pitching prospects for 4-5 yrs, and at some point that has to be allowed to play out withing the farm system by supply the white sox with quality pitchers, it will or will not but the time as come to go with those guys.

KW did make a statement to the press today that this move was made with the expectations that Cabrera will be signed to an extension. I don’t think Williams would have made this deal otherwise.

Every time I read dleeun’s comments I think he is drunk. Jesus man take english 101 before you post. I don’t see eye to eye with a few people on here but at least they can express their thoughts properly.

As far as the trade goes- i wish they would have gotten outfield or relief pitching help instead of infield help. Cabrera is a nice player that i do like but you still have all the same holes on the team that you started with. Uribe, contrary to popular opinion, isnt why we lost all of those games this past year. Erstad, podsednik, anderson, sweeney, and the bullpen of clowns are.

Even if the sox go and get torii hunter or rowand or andruw jones or carl crawford- even if they sign 2 top bullpen guys which i really doubt……..now you will not win because you have 2 garbage starters in your rotation. so now you have to fill that hole.

all i know is id rather have Uribe playing on my team than john danks and gavin floyd.

Whoa whoa whoa!

Ryan Sweeney is far too beautiful of a man to speak negatively about. Do what you wish with others, but leave Sweeney’s glorious name out this.

The one problem with the Garland trade is that Kenny broke the

Quaid rule regarding trades…that is, when you trade, always trade them out of the league to a team that you have no chance of playing–pre season,regular season or post season…that way, the traded player has no incentive to stick it to their former employer…when it could hurt most…

Don’t worry, kenwo…I’m sure that Kenny is going to try and find good homes for the dogs he wants to get rid of…

such as “Pink”Floyd,BA(although that would make Mommy Mack distraught…)Sweeney and a few random members of the Bullpen of Death…

Echoing obrnmac…to all the members of White Sox Universe, a Happy Thanksgiving to one and all…

Don’t worry about the after effects of triptophane…the Bears don’t play again until Sunday…

It makes no sense whatsoever to keep Uribe as an expensive back up…He will be dealt to someone who is desperate for a good glove, no bat player…
Just remember, though,Kenny…

When you’re trading your dogs,don’t deal with Ellen De Generis…

Well, that’s an interesting start. Cabrera is 33? Yeah, you kinda have to want more for an established pitcher, but hey. Garland has kind of had me wondering where his head’s been at, but then again, the trade rumors for so long, guess i’d be in my own world too.

Floyd in the rotation will be, “interesting”. Assuming the Sox offense is bolstered by Cabrera, a new CF, and the other Sox showing back up, Danks ought to get more support. Likewise the other pitching.

As far as Garland going to Anaheim, well, the Sox didn’t stick it to him too badly. They could’ve sent him to Baltimore. ya just got to hope we got the better part of the deal, i guess….

Then, Sweeney? A dog? Man, I liked that kid. He may not be the greatest now, but he ain’t no brian anderson. Ya know? Carries himself like a ballplayer.

Anyways, good to see you folks back, man, who’s gonna take Uribe?

To heck with it. I’m glad to see some risk taking finally. Thank you Kenny.

As far as Garland going to the angels and spouting off about a world series? Bring it on surfer boy…..

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