Back In The Saddle

Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Back Into Circulation

After too long a break (my apologies), I’m back in the blog saddle again.

Introducing Orlando Cabrera

New shortsop Orlando Cabrera called in from Columbia this afternoon to speak to the Chicago and international media with his reaction to yesterday’s trade.

Cabrera, who won a Gold Glove Award this season with the Angels, just returned from his honeymoon.

"My wife and I were surprised," he said.  "We’re really happy and excited.

"I really, really, really take this news with a lot of joy.  We’re looking forward to coming to the City of Chicago."

Orlando was asked if he was concerned about his age and future production coming off what was the best season of his career.

"Every year, in my opinion, I keep getting better and better," he said, pointing out that Alex Rodriguez just turned 32 and is talking about signing a long-term contract.  "The work I do on my body, my attitude, my mind, what I put into the game.  If I’m healthy, I’m going to put up good numbers and help my team win games."

Cabrera has spoken with Ken Williams, Ozzie Guillen and bench coach Joey Cora.

"What they told me is what I had read recently," he explained.  "They said, ‘Welcome, but we’re not done yet.’"

Cabrera also discussed being reunited with Guillen.

"It can’t be better for me," he said.  "It’s a great challenge.  Playing for one of the best defensive shortstops of an era, the 1980s and 1990s, will be a challenge every day.  I’ve never played for a guy who knows my position maybe better than I do.  He likes to win and likes to tell the truth."

Torii, Torii, Torii

Rumors continue to circulate that the White Sox remain in the Torii Hunter derby.  Think what the addition of two Gold Glove performers could do for our defense.

Roster Moves

It’s that time of year …

This afternoon, we designated OF Scott Podsednik for assignment and purchased the contracts of four players, C Cole Armstrong, RHP Jack Egbert, RHP Lucas Harrell and RHP Adam Russell.

We now have 10 days to trade or release Scotty Pods.  He will always hold a very special place in White Sox history because of his 2005 season and his line shot into the right-center field stands to win a World Series game.  When healthy, he was truly exiciting on the basepaths, and I certainly respect how hard he worked, and how frustrated he was, by the injuries that plagued him in 2005, 2006 and 2007.  Here’s wishing him all the best in his career going forward.  I’ll never forget that rainy, misty, cold October night when he hit his shot.

Armstrong, 24, had a good year at Class A Winston-Salem, while Russell, 24, impressed in big league camp last spring training.  Harrell, 22, missed last year following shoulder surgery after a very good 2006 campaign.

Egbert, 24, went 12-8 with a 3.06 ERA in being named a SL All-Star at Class AA Birmingham.  He struck out 165 to rank second in the league.  In the Arizona Fall League, Egbert went 1-0 with a 3.26 ERA and 17 strikeouts in 19.1 IP.

Former White Sox PR director, Paul Jensen, who served as the Fall League’s PR maven, raved about Egbert yesterday when he and I attended our groundbreaking ceremony in Glendale.

Speaking of …

It seemed surreal yesterday in Glendale to hear Vin Scully emcee the groundbreaking event.  Jerry Reinsdorf and Ken Williams attended the event on behalf of the Sox (I guess you can count me and Bill Melton, too).  Construction us underway on the project, which will be completed in time for Opening Day 2009.  If we can find a suitable replacement for Tucson, we will be there in 2009. Here are a couple of architectural renderings:




thanks for the post Scott. welcome back. thanks also for the pics, although for me it’s like a cloud building up north that will take my TEAM away from me. i guess i can drive two hours and “visit” in ’09. i’m happy about the Cabrerra signing, and am hopeful for Tori to join him soon. most of all, happy Thanksgiving everyone.. enjoy your day and the weekend. j.k. from the jilted city of tucson…….

Good to hear from you and the tidbits on Cabrera. All along I thought maybe Paulie would go to the Halos, for a pitcher, instead we give up a pitcher.
Here’s to hoping one of our young guys can catch fire like we have seen around our division, instead of having to wait for three years of development in the bigs. Lastly, Cabrera seems so excited to come to Chicago, maybe Kenny should have “O” give Hunter a call.

The renderings look good. I’m interested to see some real pics once construction has begun. Thanks for the update Scott.

No more Gar. No more Scotty Pods.
This is very surreal.

It’s gonna take a while for this to set in.

But thanks for the update.

And the complex looks great.

Off topic, but I was doing some cleaning and found two extra pins from Spring Training this past year. I figured rather than tossing them I would see if anyone on here wants them? If you want them, send me an e-mail; first two e-mails I get with an address I will throw them in the mail for. The pins have March 3, 2007 across the top, ’07 Tucson Spring Training’ in the middle and a Sox logo on the left and Diamondbacks logo on the right. It says it is pin #1 of 3.

and btw, I like the trade for Cabrera. I think we could’ve gotten more for Jon but I like the move overall. I am a bit worried about the young pitchers stepping up next year though…

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

jk…My friend, don’t feel bitter just yet about the boys deserting Tucson…It hasn’t happened yet…They still have to find some franchise stupid enough…er, willing enough… to put up with being the tenants to the D’Backs… If you will recall, back in 1998 when this great oddesy(sic)began, the Little Napoleon,Buck Showalter, was in charge of the D’Backs…and made every one well aware of that…and that his rules applied for everyone…be they his players or organization or the White Sox players and organization…which meant,of course, that the boys got the fuzzy end of the lollipop(remember Some Like It Hot?, John?)at all times…It will take a lot of convincing to get another franchise in there before the year 2012…so the boys will be yours to enjoy until that change over takes effect…
As to the Garland/Cabrera deal…You want to know why it’s a good deal?

Simple…Mariotti didn’t like it…and we all know that anything that the Weathervane doesn’t like…is good…

Gobble, Gobble to all…

Good point about Mary Otti, this had to have been a good deal! I’ll bet Garland is finished, never to make .500 again. 🙂

Same to you, Mr. Quaid, enjoy the bird.

hi Tom, i appreciate you trying to cheer me up, but we all know it’s a done deal ( the Sox moving for the ’09 season). and i know you didn’t mean it the way it sounded. tucson is a great place to live, albeit a minor league city. be that as it may, look for the Reds or Indians to take up residency here for ’09 paving the way for my teams departure. i went on the angels web site and the fans are about 60-40 against the trade for a variety of reasons. most think Jon is done and at best a #3. the people who were happy about the trade were so mainly for their replacement at short and that nebulous “next” deal. once again White Sox World…. happy T-day….. could that stand for turkey or Tori?….. j.k. i think i’ll rent a movie.. some like it hot sounds good….

Bruce Levine is reporting the Sox have agreed pending a physical on a four year, 19 million dollar deal with Scott Linebrink.

Great news! Now get one or two more guys and get rid of folks like Ole MacDougle, Sisco and AAArdsma and things should get better in a very important spot. (At least they sure can’t get worse then the trash that has been in there, save for Bobby Jenks the past two seasons.)

Mark Liptak

Have a Happy T-day!!!!

And I’m glad my Hawks got Macdougle!



I was very happy with what I saw when I got home tonight.

Signing Linebrink-

Ok we gave him a ton of money but for what’s available he is a very good acquisition. Just what we needed a solid veteran reliable right handed reliever.

Financially just think of it like Garland for Cabrera and Linebrink and its pretty similar. The only downside here is our lost draft pick.

And then the even better news, Torii Hunter signs with LAA, YES! Hopefully we can pass the true test and not give Rowand a big money contract. I hope we save our money for this one guy next year named John Hand Santa Ana. He could be a big tasty pick up.

Not worried about Hunter going elsewhere, not too happy he went to the angels. Well, its just time for KW to step it up. I think Linebrink will be a step in the right direction. Lets see what else happens!

mgroth – I like your optimism, but do you really think the Sox are going to go after Santana? For one the Twins will trade him this year, and we have very little to offer. Whomever he is traded to will be prepared to offer him like an 8 year $160mil+ contract. The fans had to pretty much hold the gun to Reinsdorfs head to get Buehrle for more than 3, no way he will go 8 which is about what it will take for Santana. He is looking at a contract much like what Zito got last off-season.

I love the Linebrink signing. That hopefully will be a good move for KW.

Maybe losing Hunter will be a good thing. They should turn their attention to trying to trade for Carl Crawford. Tampa is looking for one or two guys like a Danks or Masset type pitcher. Young and inexpensive pitcher who is ready to contribute. That would be like turning Brandon McCarthy into Carl Crawford which I think we would have all done in a heartbeat after 2006.

As far as Santana goes I feel like he would want to go into free agency instead of signing an extension with wherever he winds up.

I guess the only reason I’m assuming this is because he’s the undisputed best pitcher in baseball and the amount of money he’d make going into free agency would be a ton. So I figure he’d want to hear offers from other teams opposed to just whichever one acquires him in a trade.

That’s my guess at least. I’d think he’d get more than 20 million a year though, I’d assume closer to 24-25 million if not more. He’s like the ARod of pitching, but then again he’s not represented by Scott Boras.


I too would love to see the Sox turn towards Carl Crawford, but I feel like we’d need to give more than Danks and Masset, don’t you? I feel like Carl’s a premiere player and we’d have to give them something that’s more valuable then Danks and Masset.

The angels are going to be awfully tough this year. good lord they are stacked. hopefully linebrink doesnt turn into **** like most sox relievers. if he doesnt thats a quality pick up

Paging Mr. Roward….paging Mr. Aaron Rowand. Please call Kenny Williams at 312-674-1000.

When someone signs a deal that quickly after publicly stating he wanted to wait till next week to think about things, that tells you where he REALLY wanted to play.

Oh well.

Still need a center fielder, a left fielder, a lead off guy, team speed and at least another arm for the bullpen.

Don’t relax to long Kenny. There’s miles to go as the poet wrote.

Mark Liptak

Personally liptak i think the sox can get away with jerry owens playing either outfield spot and batting leadoff……that still leaves one outfield spot, one bullpen spot and even more so one pitcher for the starting rotation.

That will be the downfall of the sox this year. going into the year with danks and floyd is not the way to go. i dont like going into the year with one of them let alone both. I say look to rowand, andruw jones, carl crawford, miguel cabrera…you need one of them. then you also need to find a starter off the scrap heap. Freddy? Bartolo? i dont know but hopefully they will find someone.

Garcia is out until mid season.

I’ve seen “reports” the Sox may have interest in Colon, Kris Benson or Glendon Rusch.

I don’t know how accurate those reports are.

I understand completely your position on starting pitching…pitching wins pennants. However I think that unless the Sox significantly jack up the payroll, it is simply impossible to ‘fix’ all of the holes and problems on this team in one season.

I think ultimately Kenny will try to fix as many as humanly possible, see what happens and either make changes at the All Star Break / late July or try to solve the other issues (including I fear) starting pitching next off season.

The price for pitching is sky high and I know from his published comments Kenny continues to hope the market “corrects” itself.

Mark Liptak

mgroeth – I had read that basically what they Rays are looking for is 2 major league ready (or right on the cusp) cheap pitchers that they could control for a while plus a young outfielder they could use in a reserve role. The pitchers is what makes me most nervous. If they would take Floyd & Masset I would buy their plane tickets, but I think it would be more a combo of Gio Gonzalez and Danks that they are hoping for. Right now their outfield is stacked and Crawford is nearing the point where he will be too expensive for them to keep. I would think he will be shipped to the highest bidder before the season starts. We have the young guys they want, but if the veterans falter we would be left with nothing to fall back on.

Jim- If we really could do that I would be so pumped. Having Carl Crawford would be like when we had Pods for the first half of ’05, except he’d be better. He’d have a little power, an ability to drive guys in, a body that isn’t always breaking down, and a much younger age.

You are right though, if the veterans falter we’d be caught with our pants down with no decent guys in the upper minors, but I guess that’s part of the game, taking risks.

If the Sox aren’t having success by June and are clearly not in contention I would really really want the team to be traded away for us to just sort of blow it up and start again. I feel like this is an all or nothing kind of season here.

We’ll see.

I know this is not very nice, but it would be funny to see Hunter’s career end prematurely (torn ACL, ingrown toenail, etc) and see the Angles saddled with that contract for a few years. Couldn’t happen to a better ballclub….

Hate to trade any young pitching about now, seriously, haven’t we gotten ourselves into enough of a bind by trading away our youth in the past? Like you guys said, a risk anyways.

I’ll give Danks the benefit of the doubt. I worry about Floyd and Contreras though. Hope to see CF get filled. Would like rowand, seems crawford might cost more so to speak (talent wise). What about CoCo Crisp. Not too big on reclamation projects, where does crisp fall in that regard?

i think they could get crisp pretty cheap. however if he is the best outfielder we aquire, that will not cut it. if they could sign rowand and then trade for crisp- that would be ******* fantastic. or if they can swing a deal for crawford or cabrera and then crisp that would give us a quality outfield. i still say they need to try and find a starter for a one year deal. i think that bartolo colon would be the best option, but you never know some team might give him 4 years.


Regarding trading away minor league prospects / talent.

In fairness though, go back and look at the kids the Sox traded. After they left, how many actually made any kind of an impact at the major league level…Chris Young…and…and…and.

See what I mean?

Now that says two things.

1. That overall Kenny has done a very good job understanding who can play at the big league level and who can’t when he made deals.

and 2. The flip side of this is that these kids weren’t very good to start with when drafted by the organization which is why the Sox minor league system is in the shape it’s in, why they haven’t been able to send along ‘impact’ players to help the big club and why Kenny fired the director last spring.

Mark Liptak

Has anyone read the WeatherVane in the tabloid this AM?…That miserable(expletive and racial slur deleted)ripped the organization a continued new one today for NOT giving Hunter the money it appeared he wanted…
As far as Senor Moreno and the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim(Azusa and Cucamonga)are concerned…He wants to let it be known that THEY, not the Dodgers, are THE TEAM for Southern California’s baseball cogniscenti(Cogniscenti, that’s a $10 word that used in place of *******”…)to follow…So he has all the money to give to whomever he feels will help his team immediately to hoist the World Series trophy next October…

Well, Senor…In the opinion of this corner…I hope that you and your organ-i-zation

fall flat on your as-pir-a-tions…

Is it my imagination, or am I wanting to return to simpler times,when ballplayers wanted to play for a team NOT for a boatload of money, but because they WANTED to?

Option 2 for the boys should now be trying to go after Rowand to return to the fold…then, after all else fails,then and ONLY then, do they go after Crawford…who, in my opinion, has fallen BIG TIME from when he first started with the Rays…

kenwo and windycity… As far as Covelli Crisp is concerned, he is the odd man out in the outfield of the defending World Champions…even though he made one of the best damned catches I’ve seen in quite some time to preserve the AL pennant against the Indians…
He just wants someone to tell him that he is still desirable around baseball…

And as to giving a starting pitcher such as Bartolo Colon four years or more, just think of it this way…

In 1984, Rick Sutcliffe parlayed a 16 win season with the Cubs after his acquisition from the Indians into a long term deal…then proceeded, in my opinion,to jake it the rest of his career, knowing full well he had a long term deal that the Tribune could not get out of without a huge buyout…Since that time, I have been suspicious of ANY starting pitchers who want long term deals…of have we forgotten about Jim Parque,Alex Fernandez and the others of that ilk?…Not to mention Wilson Alvarez and Freddy Garcia…

It is just too much of a **** shoot to give these arms a lot of dough-re-mi, then see them go out and throw their arms out, and STILL pick up a big paycheck…

Develop your own talent,choose wisely,then use them NOT just to lure a name that may be out of gas, but because you feel they can help you…

I just know that a difference of three mil a year to a guy who’s already rich, is a bad reason to determine where you go. And all that talk of liking an organization is a front. Then MLB talking about Hunter being a class act, well, you get the idea, glad we didn’t get him.

I knew Coco Crisp wasn’t playing every day, wasn’t sure if there was a reason for it. See him in left and Rowand in center?

Liptak: Just saying, we’re pretty thin in the minors and if pitching is all we got (somewhat), best not to go overboard giving it away. Not worried about Young. I’d just wonder how well evaluated the younger pitchers are. Seeing what Williams allowed out on the field all year makes me wonder how good a job he’s done evaluating… I just don’t advocate giving away a relative strength we have right now. (an assorted chocolates mix of pitching for better or worse)

Oh, hey, Liptak, I read that section on Whitesoxinteractive about that proposed development from some years ago by philp Bess. Very neat proposal, wonder what it could have done for the organization.

Maybe management and Crede will see how this season shakes out, not sure who’ll take a chance on our post-surgery 3rd baseman. Maybe getting AJ, Joe and Rowand together again (and Crede having a good season) will do something good for the Sox. A guy can hope. Those comments of Ozzie’s about Crede rehabbing on Sox time don’t help, another instance I wish Ozzie’d been quiet…

i didnt say to give colon a 4 year deal. i said see if he accepts a 1 year deal to build up his reputation after a tough couple years. colon could possibly help out for a year.

oh and Williams and Boras’ spat this year? Maybe Boras getting all that bad press from the Arod/Yankees ordeal and Rogers dropping him like a dirty diaper might take the screws off of the Sox and Crede talking. Who knows…

The main thing that I am concerned with is Cred’s back, and how his healing is going…I could give a flying you-know-what(give you a hint, though–it rhymes with truck)about who his agent is at this time…I am more concerned with having him healthy and contributing…

Just saying, didn’t sound very amicable last i heard. Anyway, what kind of procedure did he have done? Heard it only alleviated the issue rather than taking care of it.

Can’t wait to see what Williams cooks up one way or the other. Deal some youth, buy a free agent, hope it changes the mix on this team, get things jump started. Ah well, just getting boring.

A Christmas Wish for Chairman Jerry…

Chicago love its Sox! The franchise is no longer a step child to the Cubs. The most intense experience in my life was the passion of the players, Sox management and our great fans when the Sox delivered the prize in 2005.

If Chairman Jerry wants to win again the Sox have to spend the money to do it NOW! So we lost Hunter to the Angels, okay. Were about to lose Rowand to the Dodgers… We have a lot of holes on the south side and we need to be serious and spend the money an make the extra effort if we are going to win in 08. The Sox are not going to go bankrupt if they make a significant increase in the 2008 payroll. The value of the franchise will continue to grow because Sox fans will continue to show up in record numbers to support our team if Jerry is serious and shows that he also wants to win again, NOW. So Merry Christmas everyone! Chairman Jerry you know what we want now: Sign Aaron Rowand, get another starting pitcher, a lead off man and lets have fun at the old ball park in 08. Oh yeah I forgot; we need an organist at every game so it feels like the old ball park again – we love Nancy but we I’m sure she can help hand select a back-up for games she is not available.

Larry Carlson

Oak Park

I agree with this fired up larry carlson! Nancy should select a back up organist. the DJ *****, his jokes arent even funny! We do need an outfielder and a starter. This larry carlson is the smartest blogger on here. What a guy!

But what about money for next year……?

I want to have money to contend for Johan, opposed to dishing out the $ for a mediocre-subpar CFer named Aaron Rowand.

i want to bang tiffany thiessen too. the only difference is if i flew to hollywood and got her drunk i may have a shot. the sox will no way no how sign johan. if you think thats a possibility you need clinical help. they will not pay for pitchers. rowand isn’t subpar-he is a decent outfielder. a lot better than what we currently have. if they could get rowand and crisp or rowand and cabrerra they would be in business.

Well here’s the list of MLBs starting centerfielders for each team last year. This is my own person opinion of the value of each centerfielder going into next season, in the category of Good, Average, or Bad centerfielder.

Kenwo, after arranging this I think you’re right, I shouldn’t throw the term subpar at Rowand, but I do stand by my thought of him being mediocre.

I’m sure others have different opinions than I do, but I want people to see Aaron Rowand and all the centerfielders, unless you just want him for his past here.

This is very subjective, but

GOOD CFers for ’08


Torii Hunter

Vernon Wells

Hunter Pence (Only one season of proof)

BJ Upton

Andrew Jones

Carlos Beltran

Grady Sizemore

Curtis Granderson

Ichiro Suzuki

Juan Pierre (Very Arguable for mediocre though)

Mediocre CFers for ’08


Willy Taveras

Mike Cameron

Dave Roberts

Chris Young

Mark Kotsay (Could argue for bad after last 2 years, but I have faith in him for ’08)

Aaron Rowand

Coco Crisp

David DeJesus

Melky Cabrera

Bill Hall

Josh Hamilton

Gary Matthews Jr.

Marlon Byrd

BAD CFers for ’08


Felix Pie

Jim Edmonds

Jerry Owens

Corey Patterson

Alfredo Amezaga

Nook Logan

Nate McLouth

Rowand’s averages over the past 4 seasons, although this is very subjective too because he didn’t get quite a normal number of at bats in 06 and you can’t really compare NL and AL stats as the same.

Average of 19 Homers a season

Average of 34.25 doubles a season

Average of 12.25 steals a season

Average of 4.25 steals a season

Average of 68.5 RBIs a season

Average of 31.75 BBs a season

Batting average of .289 a season

mgrothendick…Just remember, sir…”Figures lie, and liars figure”…I am not, by7 the way, calling you a liar…just that numeric support doesn’t mean a damned thing when you’re in the batters box facing Santana or Randy Johnson…You can’t bring the Bill James Abstract in to the plate…(not that I would want to give the time of day to that jamoke…he’s never been a favorite of mine, if you can’t guess…)
Also, kenwo…When you’re out on your mission to the Left Coast, could I possible spend some time talking(TALKING ONLY,BUB…)to Mrs kenwo?

The White Sox MAY pay for pitchers, but not for the remainder of their major league careers…remember, the life span of a major leaguer isn’t that long to begin with…

Looking at Rowand’s numbers over the last 4 years there is one thing to be cautious about. You have to be cautions about the contract year syndrome (aka: Adrian Beltre disorder) where a guy has a great year right before his contract expires, he gets a huge contract and drops back to his norm. If I remember correctly Aaron was given a new contract after the 2004 season, his last “good” season at the dish before this year.

Defensively and effort wise I would take Rowand any day. The bat is what worries me. With Uribe out of the lineup I would risk a lesser bat from Rowand for the defense. If Uribe was still in the lineup though it may have been a different choice. And you never know, maybe last year was the start of continued success at the plate for Aaron.

its the time of the year again where i get fully disgusted. the hall of fame names have been released as well as the 500 stories that go along with it.

Harold Baines deserves to get just as much attention if not more than Jim Rice. yet harold will probably get the boot off the ballot this year. Meanwhile Rice and Mattingly will stay on just because of the teams they played for. Tim Raines will also get screwed by this. Rock Raines was one of the finest lead off men of all time. Sadly neither of these players will make the hall. When i was a kid i thought highly of the hall of fame but now seeing how the voting is conducted , i know it is a joke. if Baines was a yankee he’d be getting 65 percent of the vote. instead he will get 3 percent. I cant wait til Frank Thomas gets on the ballot. He will probably get the shaft like he did in the 2000 and 2003 MVP voting. i will probably rant on this until the season gets started so get used to it….KEnWo

Kenwo – The Hall of Fame voting is definitely a joke. For one there are way too many voters. It would almost make sense to run it like a business. Have a Board of Directors that votes on it. And don’t get me started on the Veteran’s Committee. That is almost as big of a crock as Wrigley Premium Seating being a legal entity.

Raines will have a tough time getting in because he will always be second to Rickey Henderson. There are some interesting stats in this article here for Raines. I would not normally recommend anything that Dayn Perry scribles with his Crayolas, but this is to Raines’ benefit.

The whole not voting someone in on the their first ballot is a joke. Either they are a hall of famer or not.

The next time I will even be interested is when they start banning people like Bonds. Until then, they can have their little exclusive club.

Shawon Dunston??? They put Shawon Dunston on the ballot???

An actual quote from the Hall of Fame Web site selling the Dunter as a candidate:

Twice finished in the NL top 10 for triples (1990-98, sixth; 1991-97, ninth) … Finished as high as 10th in the NL in stolen bases (32, 1997)

What a joke.

Just heard Kenny Williams talking about the Linebrink signing. After that he spoke about how good he felt going into the winter meetings. I think he actually said the White Sox “are in a great position right now.”

Did I miss something? Did I miss a huge acquisition or better yet a bunch of great acquisitions? Didn’t the White Sox have 90 losses or something? Isn’t this the same GM who got owned by Torri Hunter, their #1 offseason free agent target? Is this the same guy who just signed Linebrink, a move that can only be described as questionable at best? I am confused.

The Sox farm system is hurting, the major league club has many holes, the Sox are counting on Floyd and/or Danks as starting pitchers, and have an awful bullpen. How are the Sox in a “great position?” As far as I’m concerned the Sox are not in a great position, they are in a dire position. They need quite a few new players, they don’t have many trading chips, and they do not want to pay what today’s market bears for free agents. This guy is on another planet!

I feel like I need to give Kenny some time and see what he does the rest of the offseason, but hearing this garbage is unbelievable. C’mon Kenny.


im with kris 100 percent. is he out of his mind? they are in good position? good position for last place maybe. now the twins are getting delmon young? why didnt the sox aquire him? then i open up and see how rowand and the sox are not even in the same area code? of course they arent. the sox refuse to pay for top talent. they will give big contracts to questionable relievers though. i dont understand it. crawford isnt coming, rowand isnt coming, hunter already left, cabrerra isnt coming and now garland is gone. there had better be some BIG moves on the horizon and willy tavarez and coco crisp dont cut it.

What is it that you people want in the first place?…Do you want Kenny to risk the already(at times)fragile psychological mood that some of these guys are in by telling them they’re a piece of ****?…And as for paying for top talent, everybody and their brother is out for the same goal…You cannot forget that,even though baseball is SUPPOSED to be a sport, it is,in reality, a VERY BIG BUSINESS…and in business the object is to NOT LOSE YOUR SHIRT!!!
Kris…The White Sox were not the only team to be played by Hunter…Tom Hicks and the Rangers were already planning to build a baseball camp in the Metroplex area around Hunter…but then the Angels came around with a bushel basket filled with money for Torri and his agent…Some teams are able to do that without thinking…

And that’s the problem…What happens if the Angels get all of this high-priced talent, then stink on ice in ’08?

If I ran a major league franchise,I would be damned if I would let these agents and their clients tell me what I can spend and what I should do…

Half of these SOB’s aren’t worth the headache that they’ve become…they could break down next season like a lame horse…THEN where is your precious franchise???

Where is it??? Up ****’s creek without a paddle, that’s where…

Kenwo…Teacher, you are of the opinion that none of these guys are coming to play for the boys…Isn’t there a word called negotiation somewhere? Isn’t it possible to deal in a way with these bozos,in where you reach some sort of accord?…

I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it until they put me six feet under…



Players are worth what the markey will bear. That’s the free enterprise system.

Also when Bud Selig himself proclaims that MLB is now a six billion (that’s with a B) dollar business, you can be sure no team is starving and I’d be willing to wager when you get right down to it that no team is losing ‘actual’ money. (They may be losing money on paper thanks to manipulations by accountants.)

Mark Liptak

Fellas, fellas, you all make good points. Look, Chicago ain’t so successful that we can make uber-contracts without worry like the Yankees (they can sweep their mistakes under the rug, the South Side isn’t there yet). Hunter would’ve been great, but he wanted a “winner” and went to the angels, for more money even. 5 years at 15 mill ain’t no slouch, Williams went there. Whether he had a chance to counter would be the question.

And Quaid, I agree, the owners and players do a lot to make certain, normal folks like us get alienated real quick. And yeah, I’ll give Kenny the benefit of the doubt on what he’s doing.

Linebrink? well, struggled recently in the NL. maybe he’ll be able to step up in the AL. As far as the 4 years contract? We’ll see.

Got no problem with Danks and Floyd, They got the ability, they got to step up. I’m okay with that.

Cowley’s Suntimes report on rowand, we’ll see, Rowand hasn’t signed so nothing is off the board yet.

I like our guys Jerry Owens and Sweeney, can anyone tell me where Sweeney is sitting at developmentally?

I remember when Reinsdorf and them came in after Veeck how they said they’d develop the minor league farm system. Well, we may be thin, but we don’t exactly have ‘nuthin’.

I’m hyped to see what Williams can do. I’d also like to see a bit of our youth movement as well. I get tired of hearing constantly of the success the Twins have and even more recently, the Red Sox and Yankess. I’d like to see if Owens can keep up what he was doing, I’d also like to see Sweeney be successful on the South Side.

On a lighter note, I saw a tee shirt with a picture of Jesus on it and it said, Jesus hates the Yankees. Had to chuckle about that…..

Whoa….. Liptak talking about free enterprise and what the market will bear? Kinda cynical and realpolitikal right? Where is that mentality on the WSinteractive regarding conflict of interest and fairness of media coverage?

I am ok with starting floyd, danks, owens, sweeney, richar, and the rest of these guys…..but not if our goal is to win the world series……first of all we play in a major market so we shouldnt have to suffer through another “kids can play era”. at least those kids actually COULD play. I am not so sure about these guys. If that is the route we are going to go then fine. il still watch and it will be nice to see the young guys play.

However, when you have Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, AJ, Contreras, Vazquez, Thome and for the time being, Crede, then you should go all out and get another ring. Bring in 2 or 3 more studs. Make the playoffs for god sakes. anything less should be considered a complete failure.

so if everyone wants gio and danks and floyd and owens and sweeney- trade the name players.

i for one would rather win than see the kids play i can do that at the high school.

Brother Liptak…What the market bears and what is considered a legitimate salary are two completely different things…and just as with any business…there are always TWO sets of books…one for needed consumption of facts and information…and the real ones…
windycity…Good one about the T-shirt…we need some intentional humor every now and then…

Never said to toss in all the young guys. In case you can’t remember, no one thought our guys were studs at the start of 2005. Heck, no one though our starting rotation was all that special either. In 2005 the Sox played baseball better than anyone else, no big names. Konerko would agree, he stated once that he isn’t on the same level as Manny or Ortiz and I agree. Everyone, not just Mariotti was waiting on us to move over for a real contender. Add 2 to 3 more studs may or may not get anything if we don’t play a slightly more mobile game.

Danks and Floyd, yeah, it’s going out on a limb, but oh well, isn’t that what happened when we shopped Lee, ordonez, took on question marks like Contreras and etc? Taking a chance, that’s what’s going on. We need guys to play baseball, and change is just gonna happen. Drawing on a few home grown players does not constitute a fire sale and/or a kids can play campaign. Thats all i’m saying…

good points from all of you. i think we still need to give Kenny the benefit and see what he has up his sleeve before we excoriate him ( been waiting a long time to slip that word in). i do agree that we need another proven outfielder. tori would have been good, but we need to move away from that one. if we get an upgrade in center then we can move Owens to left and keep him at lead-off. i think Joe is much better than Fields, but if we can package Joe for an outfielder, then we are going in the right direction. remember, no one thought Joe was any good after Robin, so we need to wait and see. a youth movement is ok with me too if that’s what it turns out to be, but i’d rather go for another ring now ala the mix we had in ’05. still need a better second sacker too if possible. remember, we don’t know all that Kenny has in mind, so let’s wait and see…. then we can cheer or grumble… lastly, even the yankees can’t guarantee a winner with there inflated payroll no matter who they field… you still have to play the games. a good discussion from all of you though….. crossing my fingers in tucson…. j.k.

Give me Jerry in left, don’t wanna give up on this guy. Bring a vet in center, Rowand or A. Jones, trade Crede and actually get SOMETHING for him, (HINT, HINT, PITCHING!) Fields at third. Trade Konerko or Thome, need to get rid of at least one “plow-puller”, get SOMETHING for them, (hint, hint, PITCHING or 2-sacker, or catcher). Gives us youth that is fairly proven, gets rid of some “oldies”, and another look at Richar, not proven, but smooth. Thome/Konerko/Crede ought to bring in a 5th starter at least. Just don’t tell us we’re in a good position, the only spin we want is on a hard slider from one of our “newly added” pitchers.

I wouldn’t be so certain that Floyd and Danks are the number 4,5 starters in the rotation. If we do not obtain a starter through a trade (keep in mind it is still possible that we do this, Harden (very good, very healthy, very cheap salary, but would cost a king’s ransom of ‘spects [at least DLS, Gio, and Sweeney, [probably more]) and Bedard are probably going to be traded to a team outside their division this offseason).

But anways, personally, I’m betting if we have Egbert, Gio, Danks, and Floyd going into ST the Sox will say that all 4 have an equal chance at making the club, much like last season between Danks and Floyd. In my opinion, the Sox sent Egbert to the AFL this year for a reason, they’re considering him a possibility for ’08 and although he had more control problems than normal, he succeeded there overall.

As for Ryan Sweeney, he’s not where the Sox wanted him to be originally at this point in time, but they still have confidence in him. He repeated a season in AAA Charlotte this year with the expectation from himself and the organization to outdo his solid ’06 numbers of

(In 449 AAA ABs)

.296 ave



but instead in ’07 he put up

(In 397 AAA ABs)

.270 ave

10 HR


That’s a discouraging thing at first glance but the following does need to be recognized.

1) Sweeney got called up to the majors in the middle of the season this year and was later sent back down. Although this kind of excuse should not be made. that can be difficult to make those adjustments at times because you’re used to “overtrying” at the higher level, then to go back to AAA is a different thing and it can screw you up a bit because you don’t have the exact same mindset you had before you got called up and then sent down.

2)In 2006 Sweeney had this drooling powerhouse named Josh Fields behind him in the lineup, when this happens you seem to get more opportunities to hit so you don’t get walked with Fields up to bat. In ’07 there was no power bat in Charlotte’s lineup after Fields got called up.

3)Sweeney had a wrist injury later in the season that he missed a little time for and struggled offensively with when he returned.

4)Sweeney was went to the AFL this year and struggled at first still dealing with the wrist injury, but poured it on in the end of the 23 games, winding up with a .286 ave, 1 HR, 13 RBIs. Multiply that by 7 for the equivalent of a MLB season and he’s got over 90 RBIs, not too bad, but you do have to consider that he batted 3rd a lot I think. He also got 5 SBs and only 1 CS in the AFL too, so he still has speed that wasn’t very apparent over his minor league career.

So anyways, Sweeney didn’t play as much in ’07, but overall it was a disappointing season for him. The Sox still view him as an important piece of the organization, he’s only 22 and will definitely be a major league player.

But don’t take it from me, here’s the best I can do on how the Sox view him. A White Sox internal player development scout said this on Ryan Sweeney,

“I’ve read a lot on how down fans are on Ryan Sweeney. Rest-assured, Ryan Sweeney will be a quality, very quality MLB player. The kid was only 22 years old this past year (and a bit down on how the organization has treated him by not giving him a full-fledged shot like Fields). Sweeney is going to be a .290-20 HR guy in the big leagues. There is little doubt about that. To give up on a kid so young is foolish. All the tools, all the instincts, all makeup is there with him.”

My guess is that he’ll be a starting corner OFer for some MLB team by ’09, at the latest.

If the sox could get Bedard out of baltimore- i dont care what the price is. that guy is outstanding. to me, he is a better option than johan santana at this point in time. id write the names Gonzalez, Fields, Sweeney, Floyd, Danks, Egbert, Russell, Owens, Crede, Konerko, Anderson and Thome (who i believe has a no trade clause but if he doesnt id include him too on a piece of paper and tell the orioles to pick any 4 of them. If Bedard goes to a team that is half way decent he will win 18 games a year for years to come. he is a true ace


I’m all for Kenny getting the rest of the off-season. I also understand that Hunter played other teams and so on. And I know Kenny can’t make a move that will completely turn this thing around right away. HOWEVER, saying that the White Sox are in a “great” position is absolutely absurd. He shouldn’t be spewing this nonsense. Just don’t say anything, if you’re just going to lie to us.


dammit, there’s some good baseball debating going on here! The white sox are lucky to have fans like this!

I agree, Santana ain’t the only option out there. Bedard would be outstanding, Harden isn’t too shabby either. How did Gaudin finish up? I tell you, there is potential out there. I think that’s what Williams is getting at. I’ll save my barbs for when the season starts up. But for now, we got time and opportunities.

Oh and as for the money we spend and how baseball is doing now, I think we’re seeing the White Sox focus on sustainable growth. Keep looking to expand, but with moderate risk. Don’t go all out too quick and take some unexpected, crippling hits. Yeah, I know ole Jerry Reinsdorf ain’t going hungry, but I know he’ll let us watch **** for the sake of his bottom line. I’m okay with a paced approach.

Mgrothendick, if you don’t get affiliated with a ballclub as a scout or GM, you may have a future as a diplomat or lawyer. If I ever attempt fantasy baseball, you’re making my lineup.


I’m afraid you’ve lost me with the comments regarding WSI.

Being in the media I don’t make the same claims and such that some of the others do on the site. Besides…I don’t run the site nor did I start it.

I’m simply a senior contributor primarily with monthly in-depth interviews and historical pieces on the Sox.

Mark Liptak

With all that goes on with the current day workings and machinations of the front office…every so often, some sad news creeps in through the cracks…Thus it is today, with the reporting of the passing of Rudie Schaffer,who was the right hand man to Bill Veeck during both his stints as owner…Rudie was the business manager for the Sox, and was credited with the invention of Bat Day, the development of the picnic area at Old Comiskey and the introduction of the exploding scoreboard…
My dealings with Rudie were at the old ballpark, when I was a member of the SOX SUPPORTERS, the banner group that sat in the LF bleachers…We became something of Veeck’s Darlings during that time, for our willingness to help out with various and sundry promotions…but the time I will never forget was the infamous Disco Demolition Night…as I was walking under the stands to my seat, and concerned with the possibilities that, as it turned out, came horribly true…Rudie came walking by in the opposite direction…He greated me and I said to him, in the lowest of conspiratorial tones…”You better get some more cops out here.”…Rudie’s answer?…”No,I think we’ll be alright.”…Needless to say, a few hours later…the sh** hit the fan…and the blackest of black eyes was a part of WS lore…

Anyway, Rudie was a class act at all times…he did his job well…and my condolences go out to his son, David…the senior director of park operations at the Cell…and the rest of the family…

Requiescat in pacem, good man Rudie…

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