Toronto Series

Friday, May 2, 2008

Tonight’s Lineup

Swish, 1B; OC, SS; Thome, DH; Dye, RF; AJ, C; Q, LF; Crede, 3B; BA, CF; Uribe, SS.

62 Comments

More proof that we need PK at first base. I know it was Crede’s error but Swisher being at first cost us two runs in the first inning today.

or was it Mark pitching to a hitter who owns him instead of walking him and striking out overbay….. j.k. i’m back from tex.

Here is a great story that has made its way through the Internet and the wires today and maybe even earlier in the week.

I’ve commented before that I find it very offensive when bloggers refer to players (be they for the Sox or the opponent) as “garbage” or “trash.”

Granted, this story concerns college softball players but it also shows what the game and athletics are all about and puts things in a proper perspective. When I read stories like this, I quickly forget who made the error in a loss two nights ago or which reliever should have been brought in to face Bobby Abreu.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=hays_graham&id=3372631

Small-college athletics may be the most entertaining form of sports in the world. The young men and women truly play for the love of the game and display more sportsmanship than any level of sport I have ever witnessed.

we got what we needed from Mark, but our hitters couldn’t! let’s go tomorrow….. j.k.

Once again the White Sox go into the game with the same approach at the plate and fail to create any offense. How much longer do we have to witness this?

TC:

Certainly you have the right to forget whatever you wish, whenever you wish and it was a very heartwarming story.

However these are PROFESSIONAL athletes making millions of dollars a year (more then 99% of us will ever make…) to WIN not necessarily (notice I said not necessarily) to be the best people, the best sports or the nicest gentlemen. (Although many, many of them are!)

In my opinion “sports” itself can be about the things you mentioned. professional sports are a different animal entirely.

Now on to tonight’s disappearing act. Need I mention both Toronto runs scored with two out. Hmmmmmm.

This offense looks as bad as last season’s which also got off to a good start record-wise before reality set in. (Remember the Sox were four over at one point in late April / early May before going right down the toilet.)

Don’t know what I can say…Aerosmith said it best, “same old story, same old song and dance, my friend…”

Mark Liptak

youre 100% correct Liptak. Theres nothing else to say about this club right now

With each and every inning that went by last night… with each and every opportunity that went by the boards last night, especially after Uribe’s bases loaded flyout which ended any threats that the Sox could make, I dreaded coming to this site and reading what “gloom and doom” comments would be coming out…

The facts remain, however… in his last two starts at Rogers Centre, Buehrle has, I believe, thrown two complete games, with a grand total of four runs, two earned(last year, on two solo HR’s), two unearned(last night)…and has nothing to show for it but two losses…

If I could explain why that has been the case…and if I could cure it… I would be maiking a helluva lot more money than I ever made in my life…

What say we start a CSI unit?

CSI… standing for ChisoxStatisticsIntrepreted…
Because, it seems, everybody has his or her own interpretation about what is right or wrong with this team as it currently stands, 27 games into a 162 game schedule…

At least I took some solace watching the Flubs last night in St Louis… As bad as some of the Sox players have been recently… well, let’s just put it this way… none could be as horrible defensively as Soriano is… He has a cannon for a throwing arm, no doubt…but as far as going after flyballs are concerned… he makes Sammy Sosa look like a perennial Gold Glover…

The Sox aren’t as bad as that… are they?

Come on Quaid they have been playing like dump this past week. Starting with the garbage performance on Monday. They can’t get the hit when they need it. Actually they haven’t been getting many hits when they don’t need it either. Like i said earlier i think this is going to be a rough weekend in toronto.

Tom:

What the Cubs do or don’t do, doesn’t hold the slightest interest for me on the field.

I’m concerned about what the Indians, Twins, Tigers are doing and what the White Sox AREN’T.

It was interesting reading Ozzie’s comments about trying to change some things, then 12 hours after he said he was dropping Dye to #6 we see him right back where he was.

Instead of Ozzie talking about those who are “doubting” the Sox chances, perhaps he should be spending more time on solving the issues that appear to be returning from last season if he can.

Mark Liptak

Make a couple of moves KW and Ozzie before the season goes done the tank, do something even if it is wrong , that old adage being at least you have a chance if you change , no change , no game, no chance without some shake ups.
Pitching has been impressive this year, keep it up pitchers.

I just don’t understand why it is so hard to go up to bat with a fundamental approach. Our team goes into a hitting slump, so what’s our response? Just let them keep hacking away the same way they have been. Isn’t this on Walker’s shoulders?

-Scam

note: As I was writing this PK got our first hit with a nice swing to the opposite field. Hopefully some others can follow suit.

Mark,

The comments I made after posting that link had absolutely nothing to do with the PROFESSIONAL athletes. I was trying to point out just how UNPROFESSIONAL it is for people on this blog to call other professionals “garbage” and “trash.” Sportsmanship is not only displayed by athletes on the field. And, yes, it does have a place in PROFESSIONAL sports.

I keep hoping that the bloggers on this board will realize that there is more to life than what the White Sox do or don’t do on the field or in the front office.

I keep hoping that they won’t be afraid of what has happened in the past. That’s been the mantra on the north side and they haven’t won a championship in 100 years. That’s the way it was in Boston from 1918 until 2004. Bostonians still moan about the Bucky Dent homer even though the other Sox came from three down to beat the Yanks four years ago.

I keep hoping that instead of harping constantly on the same things day in and day out (i.e., two-out runs, blown saves, all-or-nothing hitting approach) that they will try to be creative and look at other angles.

I keep hoping that they will realize that Ozzie, Kenny, the staff and the players are very well aware of these problems. Like the manager on the north side said the other day, they are not stupid.

I am a very hopeful person. But I guess this may be too much to hope for.

And would a 2-0 loss at Toronto feel any better if the runs were scored with LESS than two outs. Find yourself a new horse. You’ve beaten this meaningless one to death.

as i recall, it was either kenwo or liptak who predicted the demise of the Sox: he must be either giddy with self rightousness or else in a panic that he had that much power and prescience…. i for one in lower case font still look forward to each game that i get to watch on mlb.tv. i count myself fortunate that this is available to me instead of waiting for the newspaper the next day as it used to be. i want us to win every game, but i know we won’t, so i’ll content myself with the good play (and shake my head at the bad)….. and then, why then i wait for the game tomorrow. btw…. i use my caps for important things, like the names of Sox players. today was another head shaker, so let’s get them tomorrow!!! j.k.

TC:

You are entitled to your opinion but speaking just for myself the White Sox are the 3rd most important thing in my life after my wife and son.

Always will be. To me in many respects it is “life and death” especially when these blessed individuals are making the money they do.

With that little aside out of the way now let’s hear from Mr. Tom Petty….

“Well I’m free….free fallin’…..”

Four in a row, 9 of 14. And the offense looks EXACTLY like last season’s. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, just like for example you can’t turn Nick Swisher, a good player, into something he isn’t…a leadoff man or turn Juan “Swing and a Miss” Uribe into a fundamentally sound hitter.

“It’s Time” in my opinion for the Sox to stop trying to be “creative,” to stop trying to “think outside the box,” and realize a simple fundamental truth. If you need something SPECIFICIALLY you get that something SPECIFICALLY to the problem at hand, be that a leadoff guy, some guys who can execute the hit and run, bunt, steal bases whatever.

Trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole hasn’t worked since July 2006 when Podsednik went down again.

Just my thoughts, not that TC would think being a Sox fan is important or anything.

Mark Liptak

Klein:

It must have been someone else. I never expect the Sox to be bad, I wait for things to play out at least somewhat before making that kind of call.

When I was younger I’d get physically ill, break doors, that kind of stuff when the Sox were a garbage team. At least I don’t do that anymore, but that doesn’t mean I don’t get angry.

The Sox slogan this season is “share the passion, show the swagger…”

Each of us shows that passion in different ways. This is mine, and I’m not going anywhere.

Mark Liptak

TC:

A few more comments if I may then it’s back to cleaning the house.

I find it interesting that in all the time I’ve been a guest here, I’ve never once commented on the opinions of others from the sense of questioning the type of fan they are or about some things that I think crossed the line. That’s not my place.

Personally I feel the use of a four letter word, or any type of racial or sexual remark is totally over the line and there is no justification for it. Period.

However I personally think the use of the term “garbage” to describe a pitcher making oh two million with a career ERA of 4.6 and a losing record (who has just made the Sox look like a Double AA team) is well within bounds. If it is not, then I’m sure Scott will let me know.

And naturally if he does, I will happily comply with his wishes. This is his site and I am his guest.

By the same token it seems that you in particular have an issue with the way I present things or my passion for the Sox as well as some others. I find that a little bit of a double standard wouldn’t you say.

If you think it’s still a good day even though the Sox got embarrassed again because the sun is out or you saw a baby bird or the beer is cold, that’s great, more power to you. I have a different take on things, as a fan, as a Sox fan, for 47 years I’ve earned that right. I vent now this way…it’s much better then breaking a door.

If I can “tolerate” for want of a better word the “pollyanna’s” of the Sox fan base, I’m sure you can extend the same courtesy to those of us who think that the name of the game is winning and that when that is not happening, “it’s time” to comment and make the feelings know….call me a “realist” if you wish.

Like I said a few days ago, that’s part of being a fan and putting “blind faith” in anything or anyone… religion, the government, the media or say Kenny Williams is wrong bordering on dangerous.

Now it’s back to bathroom detail, which is where I hope the Sox don’t wind up (i.e. down the toilet)

Mark Liptak

Mark,

How much money a guy makes has absolutely no bearing in my opinion of their play. If I worried about how much money they make, I would never have a chance to enjoy the game.

I have never said you don’t have the right to vent any way you wish. If you wish to be miserable and mad when the Sox play poorly, that is your choice to do so.

Nobody wants the Sox to win more than I do. But, at this point in my life, I am just a fan. I can’t control what they do so I am not going to let their success or lack of success dictate my life. I used to throw things, too. But then I realized that there was more to life than wins and losses on 35th and Shields.

I don’t have anything against your feelings. I just feel sorry for people that have taken the greatest game in the world and have turned it into more than a game.

And don’t talk about how it’s a profession and not a game for the players. If they treated it more as a game, then they would probably perform much better. Too much focus is placed on how much they make, whether or not they are free agents, and when their contract is up.

I’m curious. Do you call all millionaires “garbage” if they don’t do their job as well as you think they should?

And the last time I checked, it was May 3. Twenty-eight games have been played and 134 (or 133 and one suspended) games remain. But if you read today’s comments on this board, the general feeling is that this season is over and to use your words “down the toilet.”

Gee, I wish I could have as much “fun” being a “fan” as you have!

Enough of this topic. As they say in baseball, tomorrow is another day. And another game. Another chance to get things turned around and back in the right direction.

And that is not being a “pollyana.” That is just the way I approach baseball.

No need to reply. I’m through with my sermons. I’m moving on to more important things in my life. And there are many more than the Sox.

But I still love ‘em.

TC:

Thank you. I get my sermons about life and such in church on Sunday…I don’t need them on other days of the week as well. As stated I have two other things that are more important then the Sox…my wife and my son. Period. That is all.

TC what you refuse to see is that it HASN’T been 28 games played, this has been going on since JULY 2006. How many games need to be played before everyone, from you to the White Sox themselves see this is a problem. Not just with a few players but with the organization as a whole from the low minors up to the big club (i.e. hitting philosophy and overall approach to the game.)

Here’s tonight’s stat of the day (before the Sox face Doc Holliday tomorrow, that’s the guy who has thrown four straight complete games) and it’s courtesy of Mark Gonzales:

“Carlos Quentin hit his eighth home run of the season in the eighth inning.

That homer would be even more impressive if at least one runner was on base.

The last eight home runs hit by the Sox have been solo shots, including 14 of their past 15. This season, the Sox have hit 27 of their 38 homers with no one on base.”

Sorry TC this is the exact same horse dung we saw last season.

Mark Liptak

Horse dung is right.

Mark,

You’re exactly right. We saw a lot of solo home runs last year. But I will give them more than 28 games before I declare this season to be the same as last year.

Yes, as Ozzie pointed out the other day in his pre-game show we do need to get more players on base for the home run hitters. And, yes, Swisher is not a true lead-off hitter.

Ozzie, though, has a real dilemma. If he puts Jerry Owens back into the mix and leads him off due to his speed, who does he sit? Can’t be Quentin since he is carrying the team right now. Hard to sit Dye. Swisher may not be a leadoff man but he still is a critical piece to any success the team may have.

This is why I leave the worrying and the tough decisions to Ozzie and I just sit back, watch and hope that his moves pan out.

They may only be 14-14, but they are still at the top of the division and, despite the hitting slump, I still enjoy watching them play. I’ve been a Sox fan, like you, for a long time and have seen a lot worse. I’m certainly not going to give up now this early in the season.

Sox are not a bad team, they even have the makings of a really good team, but I hate to hear this is only a temporary slump , that was the state of denial all last year. Personally , I like a team that manufactors runs and wins the close ball games. I hate the double play, my worst worst baseball nightmare, in close baseball games. I hate the strike out especially with runners on base to be advanced or driven in. So for me, change the make up of the team somewhat to a team that can advance runners and put the ball in play to advance runners. The sox management seems to love the Twins praising them to no end, yet they do not emulate their style of play. In the last series with the twins their style of play make the sox look real bad, and the sox lost those close games. How many hits on the head does it take to starte seeing the picture? And I do not care , hope they do actually, reel of 3 or 4 wins the team make up is still going to be off in the bigger picture of winning it all.

DLeeun:

Great point about respecting the Twins maybe even admiring the way they play…then never doing anything about copying it.

In the “strange but true” category comes this from Ed Farmer (TC this is another thing that stops and makes you go, hmmmm…. maybe you better skip over this part! After all you think it’s only been 28 games.)

In 2007 the Sox were a few games above .500 in early May when they went 1-6 on a road trip to Minnesota & Toronto. Ed said they never saw the light of day above .500 again for the rest of the season.

Fast forward to early May 2008. The Sox began a road trip to Minnesota & Toronto a few games over .500. So far they’ve gone 0-4. Will they ever see the light of day above .500 again?

Stay tuned! Inquiring minds want to know!!

Mark Liptak

i can see a lot of similarities to this team and the ’07 team, but what worries me the most is the seeming lack of enthusiasm from some of the players. J.D. today looked lost and it seemed that his shoulders were slumping after his last strike out. even the shot he hit didn’t seem to inspire him. Joe hung his head after making that error. i guess i can understand that, but those errors cost us at least one game. that’s kind of like last year when it seemed like we daily found new and unusual ways to lose. the BIGGEST part of last year to me though is the injuries to some of our main guys. so far this year we are relatively healthy. i think the cream will rise to the top and i say the Sox still have a chance to be one of those teams. stay healthy, get a win or two and let’s start rolling from there. last year is GONE! we need to take this year from now forward… yes stay tuned, and let’s root for our team to start showing up for the games. no more “dear in the headlights looks”. follow A.J.’s lead from what i heard him say after popping up late in the game, and show some emotion….. rah, rah isn’t just for high school. anyway that’s my two cents worth, thanks for listening….. let’s split with them…. j.k.

unfortunately it wasn’t me who predicted the downfall. I thought they were going to be good this year. guess the jokes on me. everyone always says we were a bad team when we had carlos and magglio and frank…id take all three of those guys in a minute over thome konerko and dye. I am sick of swisher taking walks. hit the fricking ball. you hit 35 homers one year for oakland……were you in on balco? i am sick of everyone telling me joe crede is better at third than robin ventura. ventura didn’t cost us two games back to back because of piss poor defense. i am also sick of everyone blaming greg walker. this is a veteran team. the young guy- quentin looks good. the veterans need to fix themselves. cabrera has been bad, thome, konerko, dye, AJ is cooled way down, crede is in his normal 250 range, swisher waits for a walk like a bad little leaguer, uribe has been awful, ozuna can’t play the field…….if this lack of offense keeps up for much longer the pitching is going to go south because they will be trying to make the perfect pitch because even a solo shot could beat the sox right now.

Wow, what a great story tc! Thanks for sharing it. I’m with you, happy when the Sox win–darn it, let’s get ‘em next time, when they lose.

GO SOX!

I’m just as disgusted as anybody else on here but to slam Crede’s ‘piss poor defense’ geezuz… where HAVE you been, seriously… isn’t everyone entitled to a couple of mistakes occasionally… he hardly cost them the games!

He cost them two games in a row. his defense hasn’t been that great this year as a whole. sure he makes some outstanding plays but he has a handful of errors already.

as for today…i wish they could have hit one of those solo homers everyone hates late in the game. unfortunately a great effort by contreras goes for nothing.

i thought ozzie was supposed to be ozzie again this year? why hasn’t he called anyone out? why doesn’t he bench a guy like Thome or at least put up a pinch hitter (don’t care who) against carlson late in the game. Everyone knew he was going to strike out. Thome has quickly become one of my least favorite sox players. If we could move him for a low level A player who will never make the major leagues- i would do it. Blow this thing up! I love Dye but he can go too. Crede- gone. Cabrera- Gone. AJ- Gone. They all have a lackluster attitude and I am sick of it.

I was just thinking of Scott’s statement at the start of this Toront series. If you all recall, he said he hates 4-game series because it’s so hard to win 3 games. Not so hard, I guess, for our Sox to lose 3 games.

My feeling at this point in the season is not panic, but puzzlement. I’m still puzzled about the moves in the offseason. Everyone in Sox universe knew we needed a leadoff hitter, major remodeling in the bullpen, and improved offensive production out of certain positions. Plugging those holes was KW’s job, and I was surprised, to say the least to see him do *nothing* about a leadoff hitter, little to address the bullpen problems, and bring in a shortstop to replace the second-best defensive shortstop in the league. I know, OC was supposed to bring more offense, and equivalent defense. Hasn’t happened, on either count.

When I heard the Sox picked up Dotel to improve the bullpen, I scratched my head a lot. He was never very effective in Oakland, and I saw him blow a lot of games there. The best move I’ve seen in the bullpen is sending MacDougal back to the minors.

I have no way to know what kind of job Greg Walker is doing, not do I have any sense of the “attitude” in the clubhouse. What I do know is that it might be productive to look at the video from 2005, when the team *did* manufacture runs, and see how that happened. Yes, Podsednik was certainly part of it, getting on base and forcing the opposing pitcher to worry about him, and pitch differently. That’s why job 1 should be to acquire a leadoff hitter. But, there must have been other factors, like hitting the pitches you get, putting the ball in play, and much more that the video would reveal. That’s my .02, worth every cent you paid for it :-)

Kenwo:

You can blast their performance all you want, but if you were watching todays game you would know how upset those players were for losing this one. The attitude is not a problem. Not being able to produce runs is what the problem is. Also, why should Greg Walker be exempt from the blame? His job is to help players fix their swings when they aren’t swinging well, whether it be veterans or rookies. So far I have seen zero adjustment. I also have no problem with Swisher taking walks. We need more guys on base. It’s the guys behind him who need to hit him in. We don’t need anymore solo shots. I agree with you on Ozzie not taking more action yet in the lineup. He originally said that he didn’t want to mess with the lineup while we were doing well. Well what’s the excuse now? I’d much rather see Owens out there than Mr. Throw Me An Offspeed Pitch Down And Out And I’ll Strike Out Dye. Hopefully Ozzie will start making some changes sooner than later.

Still think the sox have good potential this year. But they must make some changes. I do not care if thome or paulie or dye get hot and carry the team for a short stretch, to me that is not a team, each player doing something everyday to win that day is what a team that consistently wins the close games is all about. Really Thome must go, the past is the past ,sox need to move on, give Fields or someone a shot at dh. Or at least platoon and pinch hit for thome against left handed pitching, enough with the strike outs. Because is this about winning or respecting a past career, there is a difference but not sure the sox see that. Several other changes need to be made also I have ideas but they are pipe dreams as I do not expect any change until way too late. That from observing last yr. and this yr. no proactive moves.

ps by proactive moves I mean meaningful moves like now. Not waiting until all is lost or after the season is over to respond.

Mark,

You repeatedly miss my point on my comments. I said that I would absolutely not give up on this team after 28 (now 29) games. I never said that the problems they are enduring only go back 28 games. As Piniella said the other day, “What, do you think I’m stupid???”

Of course the problems go back a couple of years. My point is that the record does not go back that far. We no loner have to live with those losses.

The team clearly lacks speed and did little to address that issue in the off-season. The one guy with some speed (Owens) got hurt in camp. Even if he comes up, his speed alone won’t get him on base. He needs to show that he can hit and make things happen.

No team in any sport wins without speed. That is the number one factor in all of athletics. Why do you think the Red Sox came close but never won for so many years? Even with guys like Yaz, Rice, Lynn, Evans, Boggs, Clemens, etc.

I respect Ed’s opinion and don’t disagree with his comment about the turning point from last year. But the fact that this weekend has followed a trip to Minnesota is clearly coincidence. That blowup last May was merely due to a horrendous bullpen. This year, the inability to hit and move runners is the culprit.

Mark, I agree with most of the points you have made over the past few days. I think I only disagreed with you on your “garbage” pitchers theory and the overblown concern about giving up two-out runs.

But I will never ever let myself live in fear of repeating things that have happened in the past and I’ll never blame failures today on things that went wrong yesterday.

The beauty of baseball. There is another game tomorrow and another one right after that. There is always a chance to try to turn things around. And right now, only the 25 guys on the roster (and not you, me, kenwo, dleeun, tquaid, reifert, etc.) can do anything about it.

TC:

Well if it’s any consolation they gave up another three, two out runs today! LOL

My gut feeling (and I hope I’m wrong) is that this ship has sunk and sooner or later Kenny is going to have to come to grips with the R word (as in a full blown rebuilding process…)

Will the fans, advertisers, ratings… stand for such a thing in the city of Chicago so soon after a World Championship? Honestly I don’t know but I think sooner rather then later we are going to find out (short of the Sox deciding to pull a Cubs and spend 300 million this up coming off season)

Mark Liptak

I realize many still think I am off base. Thome, nice guy, has got to go. Konerko, still productive, worth some good young talent, see what you can get in a trade. Bring up Owens and Fields, worth a shot.

Overall the pitching has been solid. Perhaps stringing a few hits together, laying down a bunt and hitting behind runners isn’t such a bad thing.

My gut feeling has been the same since last off-season. This team, while not bad on paper, is not strong enough to seriously challenge for the title in a loaded division (although the records through the first month don’t bear that out) in 2008.

Still, I always harbor hope. Teams with obvious weaknesses (i.e., the ’06 Cardinals and the ’07 team on the north side of the city) have won divisions over other more talented teams (hello Milwaukee in ’07, Houston in ’06).

The Thome problem will go away after this year and my guess is he will retire. A great career, a Hall of Fame career, so I hope he has some good numbers this season before it comes to an end.

A trade at this juncture for Konerko will net nothing near what his value is to the Sox. Maybe at the trading deadline when some teams get desperate but at that time they are usually more desperate for pitching help.

Bringing up Owens and Fields would inject some speed and some youth but would not make a major impact on this team.

Face it, Ozzie must do his best with what he has. One thing these vets (Konerko, Thome, Dye, Pierzynski, Crede, Buerhle, etc.) have is a lot of pride. They were embarrassed last year and don’t want it to happen again. Let’s see it they can pull it together and stay in the race. Vazquez takes the mound Monday so maybe he can break the streak and start things in a different direction.

Like I have said many times, there are still 133 games to play. That comes out to nearly 1200 innings in which they can give up two-out runs, just in case you were wondering, Mark??????

screw thome its time to designate him for assignment! If the blue jays could do it to frank thomas, why cant the sox do it to thome? He hit his 500th homerun, its time to launch him!

I have not had much time to post lately because my wife had our first child about 10 days ago, and as it should has taken priority over baseball. Reading up on some of the posts I think most of my thoughts have been expressed. All we can do is hope they break this slump and don’t have something else go wrong like last year. Remember last year the hitting stunk for the first month or two and the bullpen was doing well. As soon as the hitting turned around the bullpen went down hill. I think this year can be different, but it needs to happen soon.

In Sunday’s game I want to know why Ozzie did not go out there and go crazy on the umpires after the two runs scored after the umpires blew the double play. Now there is no way Dale Scott can make that call in the position he is in at 2nd base, but he needs to ask for help. The arrogance of officials in all sports(except football – the only sport with a replay system to correct them) has got to be fixed. The home plate umpire and first base umpire would have seen that tag if they are in the correct position. That play cost them the game, and free runs from the umps are not something we can afford right now. Ozzie had the perfect opportunity to light a fire under this team (remember Piniella last year, it was a totally different season last year after his tirade), and all he did was sit on his hands in the dugout. The Ozzie we all knew and loved is officially gone!

congratulations jimd and Mrs. jimd on the birth of your new baby! does Sox World have a new boy or girl fan???????

i don’t see how we can get rid of Thome what with his contract as it is, but i’d be in favor of cutting him loose at this point in time, or at the very least, give him a few days off to regroup.. let’s get them today… no errors, no umpire gaffs, no lack of hitting…. j.k.

Thanks Klein, it is a girl, and she has enough Sox clothes already to last quite some time. Can’t wait to take her to a game later this year.

Jim:

Ozzie apparently didn’t blow a gasket at the umpire because he had nothing left to give after his pre game comments!

LOL

I agree with Ozzie on his comments regarding “Cubbie-love,” but he was way off base in criticizing Sox fans. Unlike the lemmings up North we don’t take to well to bad efforts, bad players or bad play.

You’d think after playing so long for the Sox, Ozzie would have a better understanding of things.

What happened in 2005 was unprecedented, unmatched and all Sox fans are and will forever be grateful, but that doesn’t give anyone a lifetime pass.

Ozzie, you want to shut the fans up? Simple….win some (bleeping) games!

Mark Liptak

Jim D-

Congrats on the birth of your new baby girl! Another Sox fan to join the masses!

Marie

Brother Devereux… May I add my “mazeltov” to the others on the birth of the heiress to the future Devereux fortune…

Now, Brother Liptak… When I read the rant that Ozzie went off on in the tabloid this morning, your name was the first that came to my mind…with kenwo a strong second…

Let’s play “what if”…

What if… these guys suddenly ran off 10 or 11 wins in a row,looking every bit like the team of 2005, or before July of 2006, as you like to look at it…Then they stumble in the 11th or 12th game, after absolutely shining like the brightest star in the universe…

Do you then, after praising their efforts during the streak of dominance, revert back to your “they stink on ice” attitude?

Just wondering…

As to some of the things that you have written, in the past as well as in the future(hello there, Nostradamus…), let me answer, if I may…

And to those of you out there who tire easily of my going back to the past… t.s. (which does NOT stand for terrible sorry)…

You and I have watched the same organization since the early 1960’s, correct?… We watched them as they fell short perenially to the Yankees, then later on to the Athletics,Twins, Indians, etc… We watched this franchise go through the WORST…SEASON… EVER… in 1970… We saw the resurgence,then the fall, then the rise, then the fall, then the rise… you get my point…

Your wife and your child , and whomever you pray to every night, are, and should be, more important than what these players are making in salary, what they do or don’t do on the field or at bat or in the dugout or in the clubhouse…

What I’m saying is… unless you own and run the franchise, and make the every day decisions about said franchise…

IT’S JUST A STUPID DAMNED KIDS GAME… PLAYED BY SUPPOSED ADULTS!!!
ARE YOU GOING TO SLASH YOUR WRISTS,OR STEP IN FRONT OF A CAR,OR JUMP OUT OF A WINDOW, JUST BECAUSE THESE GUYS LOSE A GAME??? REPEAT — A GAME???

If so… I don’t know what to say anymore…
I will continue to comment on the GAMES that people play…
and even though I don’t have anything more than a pot to you-know-what in, I know this much…
I sleep at night, whether they win or lose A GAME !!!

1. For everyone who is calling for the removal of Thome, there is not even a remote possibility of this happening, so move on to a different point.

2. I think the one roster move that is a possibility and should be done right away is bringing Jerry Owens up. I cannot stress the importance of a true lead-off hitter enough. Swisher and Dye can split time in right field while Owens takes over in center. Does anybody else agree with me on this one???

-Scam

TQ….DITTO! I thank Scott for this blog. I thank him and the organization for all the great tidbits they throw our way. I thank them for the great blog nights…but I’ve gotten where I don’t read this daily, and I’m afraid to post. If I provide a ray of sunshine, I’m a “pollyanna”. If I disagree with someone, I’m bombarded by 40 stats that prove me wrong. I guess if I want to see 90% negative comments, I’ll head over to the I hate White Sox blogs…. There’s certainly room for improvement, and I don’t mind the occasional “things are bleak, we need some changes”, but every other one is second guessing the organization, the players, etc. or arguments between posters.

For some people this is more than just a game. Some people enjoy the up and down emotions after each win or loss. We like to go on sites like these so that we can play the game of ‘what if we were the owner?’, or ‘what if we were the GM or manager?’. We do it because we enjoy it. Don’t criticize people just because they are more passionate about the game than you.

-Scam

scam… Do you think I’m not passionate about the game?
You should see the preparation I go through, and the diligence and the concentration that I put into each and every game I see with my own two eyes, and put down on a scoresheet, with PEN… not eraseable pencil…You should see the clipboard with EVERY PITCH accounted for,totalled and then put onto that afformentioned score sheet…

It ain’t easy, my friend…
But, at the end of the night, when the final out is recorded, and everything is tallied up… I put everything away for the next time…
Then I go to bed…and hope to the Higher Authority than us that I wake the next day and can do this all over again…
My passion for the White Sox is palpable… but it is just so much time in a 24 hour day…or as much time as I am given…
And I have been doing what I just described to you for the past 30 plus years…
But I guess I am not as passionate as you…

Darn this line up and darn the umps for blowing the call yesterday. When it rains it pours. Argggh.

I’d like to see Ozzie shake up this line up a bit. While some would like to see Thome sit, I can give you $15.66M reasons why Thome stays in this line up. Still, I’d move him down to 6 or 7 in the order and put Quentin at #3. As for Swish, I think a few days on the pine would help, and I’d put BA in center. I’d use BA in center instead of Owens because BA’s hitting MLB pitching while Owens has been feasting on AAA pitching. BA’s quick on base, too. So my makeshift lineup tonight includes; BA 1, OC 2, Carlos 3, PK 4 would be my start. I’m not sure what the heck to do about JD, as he looks silly swinging at those down and away pitches. Maybe move Crede to 5, push JD to 6, AJ 7, Thome 8, and who’s on 2nd 9. LOL. Once you get Swish back in the line up, he can bat 6 or 7 and we can decide whether he or JD should play in right. I’m afraid we haven’t seen the end of JD’s leg injuries this year, either.

Tonights prediction, Sox 5, Jays 1.

See, folks? That kind of post is totally acceptable…
The on-going rants and raves are one of the myriad of reasons why, when the game is over and done with…the radio goes off before the first know-it-all calls in to debate with Rongey on the Score…
I have just witnessed the game… I really don’t need to upchuck my feelings right away to 38 states, Canada and whomever else is listening on-line…

I didn’t even post MY feelings on the Scott miscall at 2nd yesterday… because it is over and done with…he blew the call, he knows he did but won’t admit it…umpires are NEVER wrong, you know…because their fellow men in blue would not tolerate it… admitting you were WRONG, how shameful…
As I say, it’s over and done with… turn the page…
A new chapter starts soon…

I care what they do… I just don’t make it the focal point of my existence…

By the way… did any of you who are so wrapped up in the games and what they could mean to civilization know that there’s a national election for President this November…

That, and our future as a nation, is a lot more important than a GAME…

I agree with 90 % of what everyone has posted. Even when there is disagreement the balancing of persepectives is fine. Is life more than a game? Maybe but games mirror life and are part of life. I find it refreshing that people post and are able to post ideas, comments, rants , whatever throwing ideas and emotion into the Public forum. I agree Thome will probably not go because of his large contract, if the sox organization could get past the $ and to what is best for the team, maybe it would be time for Thome to step down. Baseball should add 3-5 men to the size of the roster , it would be easier to add other aspects to the game, base stealing, good pinch hitters, defensive guys could be carried, ex thome could be kept for situational pinch hitting late in games. As it is now there is very little managing flexibility which leads to less exceitment and strategy. I add , that I have no patience with bad trends, they tend to go on and on repeting themselves unless moves are made to correct things.

ps Ozzie is just mad because he knows deep down the fans are right , yet he can not do much about it with the cards that he has. To me one of Ozzies faults and strengths is the same thing, he is too loyal to past baseball careers and personalities that leads to no change a lot , yet loyality to players that leads to them wanting to do well for him and the team. So nothing is all back or white . It should be up to KW to make some moves and give Ozzie dif. options.

swsafely,
I like your idea of Quentin in the 3-hole. He is the only guy hitting consistently, and there is never anyone on base for him when he is 7th. It just might turn some of his solo home runs into 2 run home runs, which at this point I’d love to see. 27 of 38 home runs this year have been solo shots. Maybe some lineup changes can adjust that? Ozzie takes his respect or not wanting to dis-respect the veteran players too far, by not having changed this lineup around already.

TQ,

You hit it right on the head. You don’t have to whine and complain and rip others to be a passionate fan.

As far as the election goes, well we all have about as much influence on that as we do with the Sox’ lineup. Unless we move to Guam where the caucus was decided by just seven votes!

At least in Guam the popular vote means something.

Tom:

You’re right this is a game… a game that’s played to win. (Otherwise they wouldn’t keep score would they?…)

To each his own Thomas.

The White Sox are very important to me, presidential elections (nothing will change regardless of who wins because each politician is more concerned with preserving their own position and power then improving the country), global warming (some fact more myth) and pontificating from armchair philosophers be damned.

We’ll have to agree to disagree Thomas and leave it at that. I’m not changing and I’m not going anywhere.

Mark Liptak

Oh and Thomas I’d like to AGAIN make one thing VERY CLEAR.

I have NEVER used racial, sexual or four letter words on this or any web site and never will.

That crosses the line with me and only shows the lack of intelligence on the part of any individual, if that is the only way they can express themselves no matter how angry they are.

Sorry I was just having an amateur philosopher moment.

Mark Liptak

OK TQ, you are a passionate fan. I just don’t see why you have a problem with fans showing their passion on here. I know a lot of times this can turn into more of an ‘argument board’ instead of a ‘discussion board’, but a lot of people including Mark do a great job of posting well thought out comments that contain appropriate language. I just do not see why you are getting so worked up about it. I appreciate all well thought out comments even if I disagree with them. And that includes yours.

-Scam

P.S.
No, I have not forgotten about the elections this year. However, I discuss politics on other sites. This one I limit to just baseball.

Scam:

Thank you for the kind words. I try to respect all views even though I disagree with many of them, after all that’s what this site as well as other sites are for.

Thomas is upset I think (and if I’m putting words in his mouth I apologize) because I (speaking simply for myself) put the White Sox “above” things as politics, the economy, war, disease, hunger and so on and so forth.

Well that’s my choice and Thomas nor anyone else has the right to tell me how to live my life or to tell me what’s “important.” I’m 52. If I’m lucky I’ll live another twenty years then it will be over. All the other issues and problems in the world will still be around, so my putting them higher on my personal list now, won’t change things a tinker’s cuss will it? (I always wanted to use that phrase by the way…)

Like I’ve said in the past if the Sox lose and Thomas is still content because the sun is shining, the birds are singing and the beer is cold, God bless him…more power to him.

You know thinking about Thomas’ comments made me realize that with the war continuing to drag on with no end in site, the economy going down the toilet even faster then the Sox, gas up to 3.20 a gallon and rising, fans NEED the Sox to start winning.

Thomas is right, sports is and should be a diversion from “reality.” Which is exactly why fans should be able to escape from it by supporting a winner (and I don’t necessarily mean winning a World Series so soon after 2005). Seeing what has happened on the field since July 2006 to this franchise isn’t exactly doing that is it? In many cases it’s simply another area where things are going bad, and to me, that’s not “escaping” from reality.

So come on Sox, put a smile on your loyal fans faces! Make Ozzie (bleeping) Guillen happy!! I’ll be much happier and that will make Thomas happy!

See it’s all good! LOL

Mark Liptak

Haha. Well said Mark.

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