Happy Father’s Day

Sunday, June 16, 2008

Today’s Lineup

OC, SS; AJ, C; Dye, RF; Thome, DH; PK, 1B; Swish, LF; Crede, 3B; BA, CF; Ramirez, 2B.  Contreras pitching.



Well, looking at the comments registered after last night…
I see where White Sox universe is going down the same road as before… I think it was someplace in Bataan…

Kenwo and the others are right… It is JUNE 15th, FOLKS…
NOT SEPTEMBER 15th… They are scuffling, yes… They can’t seem to hit their weight, instead hitting what may consider their IQ… The defense let them down last night… The opposing teams make them look pathetic… and if this pattern continues, the boys will be lucky to finish the season…

That is the line of thinking of some in this community…and especially since next weekend, the Civil War revives itself at Jurassic Park at Neverland… and all it would take to put WS Universe in a full-blown tizzy is for the Rinky-Dinks to take two out of three, or even (dare I write it?) a sweep… On the other hand, two of three or a sweep by the WS would leave this community in euphoria, and put the denizens of Cub Nation into full-blown PO…

Let’s just see what happens when they play EACH GAME, EACH NEW CHAPTER in the book of White Sox, 2008…

Analysis, as Ed Farmer used to say(and no doubt still believes), leads to paralysis…

But everyone is entitled to rant…positively or negatively…

Which is how it should be…


Well in honor of you I’ve decided to post something today on Father’s Day that should take the edge off things.

Here it is:


Thank you.

Again this has nothing to do with the fact that it’s June 15th. This has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that this offense has been “hit and miss,” “home run or nothing” since July of 2006.

There is a division ripe for the taking. This offense appears to want to piss that chance away.

THAT is what has me upset. The date on the calendar has nothing to do with it. The Sox have just lost two of three at home to one of the worst teams in MLB. (The Cubs meanwhile have had no difficulty in beating them six of seven.)

But feel free to basically say “it’s early…” “they’ll come around.”

Funny I seem to remember a number of fans saying that same tripe last season.

Mark Liptak


Speaking of same old tripe, are you ever going to come up with new things to say?

Your latest pet stat is “3 runs or less.” Or “Home run or nothing.” How many references can you make to July 2006?

I know. You’re going to say that when the White Sox change their play, you’ll change your comments.

Well, you won’t because you thrive on negativity. When things are going very well for the Sox (like one week ago), your comments are good, usually positive, but very brief. When the team struggles, you go out of your way to repetitively tell us how bad the offense is. Beleive me, you’re not telling us anything new. We can see, read or hear just as well as you can.

I know, this is America, the land of free speech and you have every right to say whatever you want to say and however you wish to phrase it on this board.

And as you so often remind us, you’re not going anywhere.

But my guess is that many fans who read this board skip right past your comments and move down to see what others have to say. You may not be going anywhere, but they sure are. On to the next post.

And you’ll be happy to know that I am about to join them.


Feel free to do anything you damn well please.

You and the other Pollyanna’s can continue to delude yourselves, that’s fine with me. I look at things as they are, not how I hope they’ll be.

But before you totally condemn me keep this in mind, I’ve never gone to the point where I start writing that Brian Anderson isn’t playing because he’s not Hispanic.

Marl Liptak

TC, I agree with what you wrote. I used to visit this blog every day and I enjoyed reading what Sox fans have to say. But now I only read it every once in a while. This blog should be called “Mark Liptak’s White Sox Rant.” Mark is a one trick pony. Last year he constantly wrote about the Sox bullpen blowing games and losing to no name pitchers. This year it is “3 runs or less” and “Home run or nothing.” It gets very old. I think he needs to get out of the house and enjoy life a little.

Oh also T.C. people don’t have the right to say anything they want on a message board and however they want to.

I believe in there are limits on sexual, racial and religious references which again some on this board haven’t abided by.

Mark Liptak


I enjoy life in my own way. Play amateur psychologist on your own time… not mine.

You want me happy? Fine, win some damn games.

See…that’s easy.

Mark Liptak

Well, Hawk and Dj say the same things over and over as most announcers and sports writers do and it may be relevant to the whatever is happening, HOlY, Cow, Holy Cow. What that is, quaint when certain people say the same thing over and over, but not others? Actually everyone tends to say much of the same things over and over ask any wife or Father’s day, Father. Actually, if it relevant keep saying it is my view.

Today was just a loss that was noone’s fault it seems. Hits came often with 2 outs , and ony a few chances missed, I can live with the loss today.

Dang boys, this is supposed to be a friendly fan blog, not a slam bash session of one another. I too skip Liptak’s comments but he still has the right to post em, although I disagree with the

‘I believe in there are limits on sexual, racial and religious references which again some on this board haven’t abided by’.

I could care less what color, sex or or religion anybody is, that’s got NOTHING to do with this blog or the Sox. If people keep slammin one another, Scott will be told to take the whole thing off the net and then we’ll be done and screwed and nobody will be able to ‘friendly chat’ Just because he writes it, doesn’t mean someone higher up isn’t reading it and will scrap it at anytime…. it’s Father’s Day for God’s sakes, relax, drink a beer and breathe…. and they say women have pms!!! (oh wait, I just slammed a gender) oops!


I’ll make one last comment in your direction (I know, you don’t care but I’ll make it anyway).

Pollyana???? Not me. I’m not deluding myself. I said before the season that I thought the Sox were probably a fourth-place team. And this still may be, despite a lead of 4.5 games in mid-June. Like I said, it’s early. A lot can happen and probably will.

I never accused you of the inappropriate comments that have appeared on this board. You’ve never done that. You’re not offensive, just negative.

Finally, you say that winning games will make you happy, huh? Well, even after Sox wins you often find something negative to say. Look at your comment after Friday’s win. I believe that someone else on the board took note of that with a response your way.

If I worked for one of the Presidential candidates, I’d do everything I could to get you a job with the rival candidate. Why? You’d suck the life and the enthusiasm out of either campaign before the convention even came.

To all the other contributors on this board, I look forward to reading your posts and comments.

Picthing continues to be fabulous bats not so good. Could you imagine what would/will happen if these guys start hitting with runners on.

I noticed also that the Rockies are pretty hot right now. Who knows get 2 of 3 from the Pirates. I have mentioned Konerko and Thome in many previous posts. I think both have to be playing hurt, perkaps a trip to the 15 day DL cures them.

It’s great to find somoene so on the ball

Colorado has gotten off to a horrible start but keep in mind that this team was in the World Series just months ago. Hawpe and Holliday just got back from injuries and Troy T. , their shortstop and arguably their best young player, has been lost due to injury.

This is not a bad team when healthy. I’m not making excuses. I’m just giving the Rockies some credit.


All Pollyanna’s should avoid reading this least they see something that they can’t comprehend!

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

For those who care about the truth, the Sox have now played 69 games this season. (That’s 42.5% of the 162 game schedule for those of you scoring at home!) That’s THIS season T.C…. no mention of 2007 or the back half of 2006. (Just want to make sure you understand that ol’ buddy…)

Of those 69 games they have scored THREE runs or less IN 30 GAMES. (That’s 43.4% of their games played THIS YEAR…got that T.C. ol buddy?)

The club record in those games?


(I guess they’ve just been facing Johan Santana, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver too many times…yea that’s it!)

Conclusion….even the best pitching staff in the league can’t win when the offense is terrible. Konerko going on the DL may be the best thing to happen to him. It’ll give his hand time to heal and it’ll give him time to clear his mind.

That is all.

Pollyanna’s can now go back to thinking happy thoughts about flowers, sunshine, cold beer and all the things that make life worth living.

Mark Liptak

Well, I certainly had a good time at the old ballpark today because my favorite team (the White Sox) were still in the game right up until the last pop-up (sorry Joe). They aren’t going to win every game (I think I’ve said that before) but as a true fan, I’m in it to take the good with the bad (like 05 with 07). So I’ll be back out there on Wednesday and again on Thursday, win (hopefully), lose (please not) or draw (doubtful).

But stop calling me Polly!

The real truth is that baseball is a crazy game. An offense that you would expect to be at the top of the league in scoring with the likes of Konerko, Thome, Dye, Swisher, Pierzynski, Cabrera, and Crede can continue to disappoint the average fan.

Reality is, though, that the Sox aren’t the only team continually not scoring runs, it can happen to other teams too, believe it or not.

For example, the Los Angeles Angles of Anaheim have played 70 games this season. (That’s 43.2% of the 162 game schedule for those of you scoring at home!)

Of those 70 games played (and by the way, the Angels tallied 2 runs tonight against a “no-name” pitcher some would call Jorge Campillo…yes he of the 2 career wins) they have scored THREE runs or less IN 30 GAMES. That’s 42.86% of their games played this year. Got that?

The club record in those games?

A not too bad, but not too impressive 13-17.

(I guess they’ve just been facing Johan Santana, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver too many times…yea that’s it!)


Sometimes you have to realize that teams can struggle against “no-name” pitchers. You have to see that baseball is baseball, and that crazier things have happened and will continue to happen!!!

That is all.

While I find the “3 runs or less” statistic worrisome, in terms of impact on the Sox’ ability to win their division, I’m curious about how they stack up on another one. Mark, maybe you can answer this one – how do our guys rank in terms of runs allowed after 2 outs? It seems to me that a lot of the runs scored against the Sox come with 2 outs. However, I have no idea whether they allow more runs after 2 outs than most teams, or less, or what.

Thank you for any insights you might have.

I know I do not have any insight into that question, but I believe that it doesn’t really matter how many they’ve given up with two outs. At this point in the season, the Sox’ pitching staff is lights out, leading the league with a 3.33 ERA, as you probably know. Right now, I’m happy with how great they are, I mean, they have to give up runs some time, don’t they?

I would like to ask in advance that the White Sox don’t CREAM my Pittsburgh Pirates in this coming series. I believe the Buccos swept the sox last season, but as a current first place team, the Windy City seems to have a different ball club then in 2007. Anyway, for those White Sox fans that are looking for a “different take” on this upcoming series – check out my blog! … and please comment.


Rough series. Don’t like losing 2 of 3 to Colorado. Plus the Tribe and Tigers have inched back into the picture. Hopefully a day off will do these guys some good and we come back to manhandle the Pirates. Hopefully Damaso Marte will NOT be brought into the series as he has been lights out all year. I still say the stupid fans ran this guy out of town. He had a rough 2 months of the season and had previously been great for 2 1/2 years. He has been good the last two seasons as well. Marte out of the pen would have worked wonders throughout 2007. Plus it would have saved us from the darkest time I have had on the south side…..watching Rob Mackowiak play center field. Now that is when people should have been bitching about the Sox not now.

A side note:::::::::Dleeun still cannot generate a legible sentence. Someone please take his keyboard. I feel like I get dumber every time i read his posts….The same way I feel like if I happen to watch Napoleon Dynamite.

Say what you want, but Mark beating on the same problems over and over again is kind of like how the Sox beat on their fans with their inconsistency. I have no problems reading what he writes because it is the truth. I’d rather read the truth over and over again than be duped by a 7 game outburst just to fall back into the same garbage we had been seeing before.

How does that 7 game win streak feel now after going 1-5 against two teams that entered their series’ a combined 25 games under .500? (Det -11 and Col -14). 4 of those 5 losses came against starting pitchers with a .500 or less record. Seems like a continuing problem, but this goes well beyond mid-2006(with the exception of most of 2005).

Now we have the Pirates. Others I’m sure will disagree, but I would accept nothing less than a sweep. We go up against 3 pitchers at .500 or less. BEAT THEM. To be a playoff team you have to beat average and below average pitchers. We need this sweep to get some confidence before we go to the Shrine for 3 with a team that would beat our pants off the way we played the last two series.

I have been saying for about a month now that a DL stint for Konerko would have been a good idea to get his hand and mind healed. Obviously I don’t want his oblique strain to be bad, but I hope the Sox are smart enough to sit him down for a while. With NL games on the road coming up we need to have a full and healthy roster.

now now children…..let’s play nice with each other.

let’s lay the blame for the last couple games where it belongs….ozzie. the “bad luck” began when ozzie felt sorry for juan .198 uribe and put him in the game the other night. Oh, he did get 1 lucky hit to be sure, but he’s also the reason that PK is going on the DL.

Rememer that BS throw to first by uribe? anyone catch PK wincing as the runner’s elbow hit him in the ribs? yeah, that’s right. and the next day PK can’t even take batting practice.

Ozzie, we keep waiting for you to manage this team to win. how in god’s name can you set down ramirez who’s batting .295 and play uribe? how much longer will you keep the pitchers in the game one inning too long?

when PK is in the game, whether he hits or not, we win. when he’s out, we lose. now we’ll probably lose him for 8-10 games. i hope you’re proud of yourself ozzie. we cant afford to have you keep throwing away games much longer. start managing!!

Kenwo, Marte could not pitch under the pressure of a pennant race. It was obvious, and there sure is no pressure in Pittsburgh where they have no shot at winning. He’s had good numbers, no doubt about that. Let’s see what happens when a contending club signs him after he becomes a free agent. See how he does then when every appearance means something. I’m not counting out that he may have changed and gotten better, but I will be interested to see.

i suppose then, that scotty pods only plays well during pennant races and in the playoffs becomes a 5-tool power hitter. ive got a sample size of about a month, so it should be true for forever.

marte is a stud with electric stuff. even in his worst year when the fans booed him right out of town he posted an era under 4. but that year everyone in bullpen but luis was apparently having the best year of their career, so marte’s worst was unacceptable comparably.
hes obviously not bound for cooperstown, but any team in the league would be foolish to pass up a chance to add him to their pen. and we went above and beyond that and kicked him right out. and whatd we get??? freaking mackowiak. cancer. helped the padres choke their way out of the playoffs last year and has since been chipped to the nats where he’s been released.

anyway, the recent stretch has certainly been disappointing, but we’re still in good shape. and hawk is right, if the pitching holds up as it has been, we should be just fine. i do hope to see kenny making some moves to bolster our offense, though.

Seriously all the sniping on Liptak is unfair. He brings a valid point, while the 08 sox are better than the 07 sox, it doesn’t mean that they haven’t been in a rut of a different nature. I welcome the numbers. And got to thank Devereux for his posts too. They bring some good ideas to this blog. I stopped tracking numbers ages ago, I’m glad some people still do. If someone doesn’t want that info, more power to you, but don’t bag on the guy cause it makes you feel better.

The wait and see attitude got old last year and its getting old now. I would rather see rebuilding than watch Konerko and Thome take up valuable at bats on this roster, thank goodness PK is getting a break, more for my sake…. I don’t HATE any of these players, we’ve got good ones, but damned if the same offensive stuttering is keeping this team from blowing these bad and mediocre teams away. A knotch in the win column now counts the same as in september. Yeah and I didn’t get the whole sitting Ramirez thing either.

I have no problem with Mike Deveraux’s posts. He does a fine job and while we don’t have the same opinion a lot of the time I respect him. Liptak is a fan too and I will probably be griping the way he is very soon if we don’t get our act together but I think he can make his point once or twice a day not 64 times. Dleeun is a tool however, and if I were Riefert he would be banned.

I just don’t like the flip flopping that has been going on. It is worse than the fish struggling for life in the now defunct Lake Delton. I can see myself flipping over to negativity if we lose these next two series…..but i won’t change my tune every game for goodness sakes.

myp – I am not denying Marte has good stuff. He is a very good reliever. He played poor when it counted though, and could not buy a strike. If I remember correctly he did something that ticked off both Ozzie and Kenny that wrote his ticket out of town. I am not saying I would not like to have that trade back because it was a bad trade(Ozzie made it worse by playing the guy out of position), but if people are going to rag on one person for repeating things then they need to get on other people who beat dead horses like the Marte trade for 3 years now.

What moves would you like to see? Who is gonna sit to get someone to bolster our hitting? Nobody is going to take any of our basecloggers(that is if they get on the bases) to give us any help, and we have squat as for as minor league talent to trade with.

Hopefully chasing a little white ball and hitting it in frustration (that is how my golf game works) is what these guys need to get back on track. Keep a close on Alexei though because he might be hiding behide a flagstick!

JD… First off, I hope you had a good Father’s Day — I think it was your first, if I’m not mistaken…

Second, are you saying that Alexei is so skinny…

(Altogether now… HOW SKINNY IS HE ???)

He is so skinny that, if he wore an all-yellow outfit, he could masquerade as the foul pole?

I know I’m foolish for posing this question, and I know I’m going to get my butt reamed out, HOWEVER…


THESE PLAYERS ARE NOT ROBOTS… THEY CANNOT PROVIDE PERFECTION EVERY G-D DAY (G-D standing for gosh-darn…for those out there who monitor such things… yeh, you’re right, Shecky…)… THEY ARE ONLY HUMAN… AND IN CASE NO ONE HAS NOTICED… HUMAN BEINGS ARE FALLIBLE…

Still… some people chew on an on-going theme like a dog on a bone…

And if a team goes 161 and 1… there will be SOMEONE out there, betcha boots, that will b**ch about that one loss…

Today, however, these HUMAN BEINGS are doing a good thing for a good cause…

Hitting around a little dimpled white ball for the sake of CWS Charities… I hope that all the participants have a wonderful day…and that a lot of money is raised by all the endeavors going on…

Tomorrow, prior to the game against JB’s beloved Buccos…


I am tired of saying that it’s only a game, it’s not life and death, only to be shot down in flames by those who disagree…

So I will just go on doing what I’ve been doing here for nearly three years… commenting on the ins and outs of WS Universe… and getting blasted or praised, depending on who is responding…

TQ – It was my first, and thank you!

He’s so skinny he might be able to hide his whole family behind the foul pole. I fear that someone might mistake him for a 9-iron and try to stuff him in a golf bag.


You are right. Marte punched his own ticket out of town when he went AWOL from the team in the heat of the pennant race in ’05. The fans’ booing was not his sole reason for getting traded.

Poor Rob M. He gets played out of position because Brian Anderson wasn’t ready for everyday play in the bigs. Because Rob is not a CF, some fans on this board call him a “cancer.” I guess that is what happens when you’re a team player and play wherever your manager asks you to play.

Let’s get 2 out of 3 at a minimum from Pittsburgh and then go up to Trendyville and take a shot or two at the hot team up there.

Mackowiak is a cancer, a bum, a stoke and an all around piece of garbage on the baseball field. The thing that bothered me the most is that Kenny Williams never attempted to get a mediocre center fielder who could hit better than anderson and catch better than mackowiak. couldn’t have been that hard.. I think there were a couple of guys in my semi pro league that could have filled the bill better.

Another thing that bothered me about him was all of my dope friends loving the guy because he was from oak lawn. big f’in deal that he is from oak lawn. sure it would have been a feel good story if he was good , but the guy couldn’t get the job done. He couldn’t get it done in San Diego either. Grade A Garbage= Rob Mackowiak.

Just because KW did not try to improve the position does not mean he was a “cancer.” He was used out of position. That is the manager and GM’s fault for not improving the position. If you asked Konerko to go play 3rd base would he be a “cancer” because he is playing a position that he is not used to or capable of playing? “Cancer” is way too strong and degrading of a word to use for a guy with the character Mackowiak shows. His errors did cost them a few games, but it was not the difference in the season and certainly did not divide the clubhouse or anything that a player who is a “cancer” would do.

I take a trip up north for a nice relaxing weekend of fishing and golfing, and then I come back to this? Ick.

I think a couple small changes could really help this struggling offense a lot. I think we need a true leadoff hitter like Jerry Owens. We could put Quentin at DH while Thome takes some time off. Anderson could play LF. We would then have a great defensive outfield. While Konerko is out Swisher would be at first, but as soon as PK is healthy I would have him in there and Swish on the bench.

Here are some possible lineup changes. Feel free to critique them.

While Konerko is out:
Owens CF / Ramirez 2B / Quentin DH / Dye RF / Pierzynski C / Cabrera SS / Crede 3B / Swisher 1B / Anderson LF

When Konerko is healthy:
Owens CF / Ramirez 2B / Quentin DH / Dye RF / Pierzynski C / Konerko 1B / Cabrera SS / Crede 3B / Anderson LF

After Thome takes some time off and a righty or Sabathia is pitching:
Owens CF / Ramirez 2B / Quentin LF / Dye RF / Thome DH / Pierzynski C / Konerko 1B / Cabrera SS / Crede 3B


Well said JimD.

We had this discussion a year ago about kenwo’s use of the word “cancer” to describe a player that didn’t perform up to kenwo’s desired level of play. It was a horrible choice of language. I also get offended when he (and some others) refer to other players as “garbage.” They may be millionaires, but they deserve some respect and calling them garbage just because you don’t like the way they are playing is taking it way too far.

Mackowiak and Marte have been gone for a long time. Why don’t we all give them a break and stop talking about them on this board?

I haven’t looked at any numbers from Charlotte lately. Is Owens starting to get into shape and hitting for a good average yet? He needs to be 100 percent and playing well before making the jump. If not, then he’ll struggle up here and sooner or later be called “garbage” by certain members of this board.

No doubt we need some speed in the lineup. After watching Saturday’s game, it is easy to see why Kenny was so interested in trying to acquire Taveras a couple of winters ago.

And all reports indicate that Konerko was injured during batting practice on Sunday. I guess that earlier post about Uribe making a bad throw that led to PK’s injury was erroneous. Hey, Juan catches enough grief from the fans. He doesn’t need to be blamed for injuries, too.

TC, I read recently that Owens is fully healthy again and has been hitting over .350 the past couple weeks. His average is not great, but he had a pretty bad slump prior to getting hot. Now would be a good time to get him up here if Konerko does go to the DL. It is speed and it gives us more options when playing interleague games on the road. We need to have a full and versatile bench.

Scam, I like you lineup suggestions. The only problem I see is that they won’t sit Thome or Swisher for long stretches of time. They should, but that is just not gonna happen. Ozzie respects Thome too much to bench him, and I think KW wants Swisher out there because of the price he paid for him.

I know Quentin could use a few days to get things straight again, but I do like him in the outfield. He takes good angles to the ball and has a pretty strong and accurate arm. He has not had many chances on plays at the plate, but I know he has made some very good throws to make plays close at second on doubles and even hold some to singles. I would move Dye to DH and use Anderson in RF with Owens in CF, but that would include benching guys that they won’t bench.

TC you are a cancer on the board. Marte has been a money reliever for a long time now and Mackowiak is out of baseball. Dumb fans! Dumb Kenny! Don’t forget that Marte got a victory in the World Series.

dumb fans???? wtf? because we all aren’t a bevy of information!!!

Yeah Dumb Kenny for trading for Geoff Blum too right? Or maybe he is dumb for getting Quentin – oh wait you’ve been praising him for that. Not every trade is going to work out! We know you have a personal vendetta against him because he got rid of some of your favorites in Lee, Thomas, Everett, Garcia and probably Uribe pretty soon. Last time I checked though he put together a world series winning team and we still have a team that is more than capable of winning (if we hit to our capabilities of course). I don’t like all of his moves. I gladly admitted to enjoying my crow over the Quentin trade. Calling him dumb though is a little childish.

I said dumb fans for aiding in the booting of Marte. Because Neal Cotts was by far the better of the lefties HAHA!….. and he did get rid of a lot of my favorites. personally i wish he would have traded Konerko to the Brewers for Pods and moved C Lee over to first base. Lee is by far the better, more athletic player. If you were going to give one of them a big contract it should have been El Cabillo. If he played third he can play first. I don’t see why Everett is such a “bad guy” in the eyes of the sox fans either as he contributed just as much to that world series team as much as anyone else did. Thomas should not have been dumped like that and to bring in Thome for him, while trading your center fielder to get him, was just ridiculous. I have praised Kenny from the beginning of this offseason. The moves he made were quality. Quentin, Linebrink (who all of you said got too much money), Dotel and hopefully Swisher will produce soon. I don’t see how Orlando is so much better than Uribe is. He gets a few more singles sure….but he doesn’t make the plays Uribe did because his arm is lacking, he doesn’t have the pop Uribe does and he doesn’t get clutch hits like Uribe does either.

At the time trading Konerko might have been career suicide because Konerko had been such a fan favorite(that status seems to be fading a bit). I don’t know that C Lee would have been a fit defensively right away, but I could have seen the move working. And if I remember correctly Ozzie wanted Lee gone because of his unwillingness to play Ozzieball (LMAO – we still don’t play Ozzieball!!!)

Everett’s best years were behind him, but he was clutch in 2005 when we needed him. It was probably the best .251 batting average you could ask for. Seemed like he had a ton of 2 out hits to score runs especially early on before Dye and Crede got going. I give Everett a lot of credit because the guy was psycho early in his career, and he learned to control his temper. I think he was a bit of a loner in the Sox clubhouse. He was miscast as a bad person in the clubhouse because of his past. The things he said after the Sox released him did not help, but I would understand the bitterness.

I never thought the correct move at DH was Thome. While he was fairly productive when not hurt for the first two years, it should have been Konerko or Dye going to DH to preserve their legs. I knew because of the injuries and what they would have had to pay Thomas he was never really an option. We could have upgraded and got a little younger and maybe add a little speed at the same time.

Tom Quaid, please, just relax and take a breath. One would worry you’ve developed a martyrdom complex. Just keep things relevant. You talk a good one earlier on this board about people’s right to rant, positively or negatively, then you procede to rant about other people’s opinions. Just leave it alone. If you’re so tired of making the same argument…..newsflash….DON’T. Liptak defends his repetitious posts, you can do the same. But spare me the praise or blasting for your post remorse, you’re the one who keeps coming back. Just spare me…. And players playing golf for charity? Just donate the $, why do i need the pomp and circumstance. I get it already, they’re great people. I donate blood and money and time too, I ain’t crying over it….

Can’t we all just get along??

Just for the record….it is “El Caballo” (horse).
Aren’t you a teacher?

Oh and BTW, Do you guys even realize that you are sounding like a bunch of whiny, crybabies? The kids in daycare get along better than some of you on this blog.
When will you learn that it is okay to disagree and to have various opinions but not okay to namecall and insult?
geez louise guys we are barely even at the halfway mark and you guys are acting up already?


If you notice a reduction of visitors to this site take a look at the blogs from the last couple days and you will realize why.

Guys, grow the fu– up!!!!! Is that adult enough for ya?

Lisa M

Thanks for the spanish lesson- it was always my worst subject. i am a history/geography teacher. ozzie always butchers the english language so i guess i can butcher spanish

In other news, I just read the Sun Times article in which they select which Chicago players they would rather have. I have issue with this article. Personally I would take Soto as catcher over AJ. AJ is a hinderance behind the plate with his weak arm. Throw in Soto being younger and his hitting, I would take him. I also have a problem with the outfield. I wouldn’t take either Swisher or Reed Johnson. I would move Fukudome to center and JD in right. Come to think of it I would move Soriano to second over Alexei……

But the thing that I really have issue with is they didn’t select starting pitchers. I suspect because 80 percent of them would be Sox pitchers. Sure the Cubs would have Zambrano, but after that I would take any of the Sox 5 ahead of the Cubs number 2. I would even take Buehrle over Dempster. I just think they didn’t want to show how the Sox pitching is so much more advanced than the Cubs. You can make a strong case (at least this year) for Crede over Ramirez. Personally I would take Joe. These kind of articles usually end up getting under my skin and I suppose that is what they are supposed to do, but at least put a pitching staff together for god sake.

Keno, if anyone is banned it should be you. Poor kids you teach. I never, never, starte calling people names, but if they lead out at me, I certainly respond.

Not that I would ban Keno, My view is anyone has a right to their opinions regardless how trival they my or may not be.

Lisa, you are right. There is a lot of childish behavior on here lately. No need for name calling. Good logical thoughts, and arguements are what talking sports is about. Calling people dumb, cancers or pollyana’s is overboard. Use the board to have fun, get some insight and talk Sox whether we agree or not. Calling people names for disagreeing is petulant behavior.

As to that article, anything published in the Sun Times you have to take with a grain of salt. They will do anything to sell papers and ad space.

I would say the way the season has gone so far the 5 starters would be Danks, Vazquez, Zambrano, Contreras and Floyd. Not necessarily in that order. I want Zambrano on my team so he can DH the days he does not pitch. He should have gone to free agency so he could have gone to the AL. You know some team would have offered him that opportunity and he probably would hit 30 HR’s a year. Dempster would be left off because he will wear down and probably be useless this year by the end of the season.

The biggest debate would be Marmol vs Linebrink. Both have been awesome so far and keys to both teams success. Neither one of these teams is blowing leads late in games, whereas both had the same problem last year.

Jim, thank you for providing knowledgeable, well thought out, and respectful answers. It’s too bad more people on this board can’t follow your example.

I know most of our suggestions are not going to happen, but it’s still fun to dream. There is one thing though that irks me more than anything else with this team, and that is their approach at the plate. When the home runs are coming then they look great, but when the homers aren’t working they don’t change at all. They keep swinging for the fences. I just don’t understand the thought process with these guys.

Besides Cabrera, AJ, and Ramirez- the team is built around sluggers. In a park like ours sluggers equates to home run hitters. Their process is probably the same as it has been since they were little leaguers. It has gotten them this far so stick with it. If you have a problem with the type of hitters that are on the team then you have to lay the blame on Williams. Jim Thome, Nick Swisher, Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede and Paul Konerko are guys that drive the ball. Yes that means there will be a lot of strike outs and pop outs. You can’t go around telling guys who have been all stars and have had great success in the major leagues which has led them to big multi million dollar contracts to all of a sudden become an opposite field singles hitter.

The problem isn’t them getting hits it is them driving in runs. Most notably the sacrifice flies. In 2005, we had a ton of sac flies. Most of them by Uribe and Everett, at least thats how it seemed. We just have to get the man home from third base with less than two outs on a more consistent basis. The idea that the Sox hit too many home runs is ridiculous, since the home run is the easiest way for a run to score. In fact I wish a few more guys struck out or popped out instead of hitting 300 double plays a week.

Who can disagree with scam and jim. But when people name call and single you out to be banned, just ignore it? Perhaps that would be better, maybe. If a team’s pitcher nails a couple of Sox hitter’s and it seems personal, Sox , Ozzie give it right back. Is that right? Best not to let teams or people run over you. It is hard, a paradox, really to get it right, and I think , that I error on the side of giving it right back, which is wrong, shame on me.

If you want to change their process at the plate…just look at what they did to Swisher making him the leadoff man. Changed his process and now he sucks. Should have let him rip the entire season.

Oh my god it is a message board. Get over it. People on this board rip into me all of the time and you don’t hear me whining and crying to mommy that Dleeun and Mike Deveraux don’t like me. Suck it up Sally’s.

Scam you always provide the same. And I agree, it is fun to play armchair GM and manager. However I am happy to let Kenny and Ozzie take care of that stuff fo real. I’m sure it would be a deam job for someone like me, but it’s one of those jobs where you are hired to be fired at a later date and time.

Their approach has always been a pull the fastball approach. There a few exceptions like AJ who learned in Minnesota how to take a pitcher the other way. They preach that in the Twins system. I have been saying for a long time that they need to pick an off speed pitch and sit on it. We get shut down by guys throwing changeups all game. Sure there are some that have that unhittable change like Johan Santana, but getting shut down by Verlander who really has no changeup was embarassing. I guess when you have had success in the past, and for the most part all of these guys have, it would be hard to change the approach that got you there.

If they really want to change their approach they need to add some speed. There is no reason to try to hit to the right side when you know the guy on first won’t make third on a hit. I’m guessing that the thinking is that it takes 3-4 hits for this team to score a run, whereas 1 long ball gets you that same 1 run. They also need to change the approach in the minors where they should be preaching their philospohies like the Twins. The stats of the guys in the minors throughout the whole farm system stink! Last time I looked (last week) there were very few guys hitting over .300. It seems as if it is homerun or nothing there as well.

The Yankees and A’s have the work the count , take walks, make the starting pitcher throw a lot of pitches approach. Twins hit the ball up the middle and to right approach and peck away. Angels run, steal, take extra bases. Those are just team tendencies. Sox have gotten into somewhat of a mess with the strike out , double play , home run approach on offense. That is why a lot of people that post are frustrated with the offense. Only KW can fix that if he wants or let if ride the way it is if he wants. Or Ozzie, KW can say we want each player to take a different approach according to the situation. But they do not do that anymore very much in the majors with established players.

Konerko DL’d…..They bring up D. Wise again. He will do nothing more than pinch run and get a start once every 2 weeks. Personally I would have liked to see them bring up Owens and let him lead off. They are going to go with Anderson and I don’t see that love affair. I think Owens coming up could have brought them a little more energy. Oh well. We’ll see.

I am just wondering out loud here……but did Owens bang Ozzie or Kenny’s wife or something? How did he get in this dog house? The guy was pretty successful last year, had a good spring til he got hurt and now he is healthy and ripping the ball again. Then you get an injury and a struggling slow offense- you would figure this is the one guy in the organization that can provide a leadoff hitter and great speed for a team that needs both- and he gets passed over for a 30 year old pinch runner? Something doesn’t add up.

Kenwo, you are right about 2005. Uribe and Everett were tied for 3rd in MLB with 10 sac flies each. Uribe even had another 11 sacrifice hits. No doubt the best he performed at the plate. As a team we had 49 sac flies and 53 sac hits in 2005. So far this year it is 14 and 10 respectively. That is on pace for 33 and 23 respectively. That is one heck of a drop off.

Yah i figured I was right. Uribe and Everett may not have had the highest batting averages but they always seemed to bring that run in. Whether it be a fly ball or a grounder to the middle infield. We miss RBI hogs like that in the line up.

When you said Kenwo, you are right…I thought you had inside information on Owens banging one of the wives haha

Kenwo, get your mind out of the gutter and stop projecting that baseball decisions get made based on sex!

It is official, Konerko is on the DL. Dewayne Wise is the call up from Charlotte. Apparently Owens is not ready yet?

Unless KW wants a big make over on offense , there are no easy answers. You have Carlos, Alexei, Dye , Anderson, and Swisher used in the outfield. Owens could fit as a lead off hitter but then you have 6 outfielders all of them doing ok. If Alexei is at second it would be 5 outfielders, last count only 3 can play at once. If Swisher is at first you are down to 4 . So you could then chose between anderson, dye, carlos and owens. I would put owens in center , anderson in right and carlos in left, myself.

Slow guys on the team, thome, konkerko, crede, aj, then dye, kinda slow swisher and uribe. Fast guys Alexei is it, with OC, Anderson and Carlos fair. One fast guy playing on the team, that is why I would play owens in cf. But to me that is not a make over and why I have consistently wanted to get rid of thome, konkerko, dye , and possibly crede , swisher, for sure uribe, and have a major make over to help the pitching.

nmbrott….what is your explanation then? I was just trying to think of a good reason why the sox would pull up a 30 year old pinch runner instead of a guy who last year was touted as the future center fielder. Not that I don’t like Wise, I do, but not for this team at this time. Owens clearly did something to piss someone off. If he didn’t then why isn’t he here. Doesn’t make sense.

Hopefully the trip to the DL for Paulie helps heal the hand issue he has had all year.

Now here’s hoping our GM can find a home for Thome, literally. Nice guy but this team is in severe need of a DH who can hit for power and average. Thome’s time has passed and it’s time to retire and pick up the Hall of Fame cap.

On Swisher , keno, he never ripped , playing for the A’s and working walks was his thing, that is why KW wanted him, higher on base %’s. Kw was hoping to get some 2 run home runs instead of solo shots.

I must give an A- to keno for injecting energy into the blog. Gardens need fertilizer to grow.

How is Owens not up here already? Now with Konerko down he’s STILL not up. He’s healthy, he’s hitting, he’s stealing bases…sounds like something the Sox could use.

I love the Sox, but I’m finding it hard to follow them this year, it’s just not fun watching bad baseball…many of them seem unable (or unwilling) to do the things they begin teaching in little league. HR’s are great, but they can’t be relied upon. I remember many Sox players saying they should just happen rather than trying for them, yet when I watch them hit their back shoulders are dropping, hips are clearing and heads are flying as they are waving at a pitch low and away.

They are pro’s yet even they sometimes need someone to fix their swing…if Tiger can fire his “hitting” coach, I think it’s about time for us to do the same. Too many guys’ swings look terrible and have looked that way for too long. I don’t blame Walker, I genuinely like the guy, but maybe it’s time to bring in someone new.

Apparently Owens injured himself. Not sure how bad, but he’s starting to look more like Pods than our future CF. I feel bad for the guy, just when his chance comes, he hurts himself…TWICE. Spring training and today. I’m sure KW isn’t happy about that…and I’d love to hear Ozzie talk about Owen’s injury (remember his thoughts on Pods at the end?)

Owens is apparently hurt (happened last night in Charlotte) and I’m hearing Fields is hurt again as well. Don’t know if that is true with Fields or not, just what I heard.

This Pittsburgh series is turning out to be a VERY important series. It sure didn’t look that way when the schedule came out but circumstances have turned it into one.

If the Sox have a bad series with the Pirates they face the prospect of going into Wrigley (where they have rarely done well…) with the potential of a lousy two weeks. (if you include the Detroit debacle and the Rockies melt-down) A lousy two weeks in this division could be a killer come September. Add Konerko being out (which is still probably a good thing for him, to help his hand and his head), the offense slumping again (or is that a redundancy?) and it’s a confused time right now.

Regardless of things however, they need to win some damn games and stop wasting good pitching. The time for “excuses” is over…get it done. Period.

Mark Liptak

Wink, I echo your sentiments on Walker, need a change there. Say all you want about the players needing to step up but this hitting funk has gone on for far too long. The time is now for a new approach.

I don’t know how many options they have left on Owens. Mark do you have that info? That could be the reason he was not called up. If he has no options left after they optioned him down at the end of spring trainging then they would have to keep him on the mlb roster when Konerko is healthy, and then someone else has to go, but who? That is my guess as to why it was not Owens. I know they have used at least 4 options on him over the past 2 seasons.

Well, Thome done apparently, Dye streaky, Carlos on a down turn, and the rest of the gang. Carlos carried the team, when that stopped the team just lost , noone else stepped up big time. So getting it done is not an option for this team as it stands, that is,of course, over an extended period. KW get busy or blow this opportunity.


Owens according to Mark Gonzales, got hurt last night in Charlotte. Also he’s been thrown out ten times in his 27 steal attempts. My guess is, that groin has never healed properly and is still an issue.

I’d be surprised if he is in any plans for the Sox in 2008 and you never know, Kenny may have grown tired of his bad luck a la Podsednik and he may be sent on his way this off season.

Remember, Owens is “old” for a baseball player because he got a late start in the game, he was a wide receiver at UCLA. I don’t think his “option status” had anything to do with this.

Also just yesterday Ozzie was quoted in Dave Van ****’s story talking about the offensive woes (or is that a redundancy?) and he said the Sox “were a different team” with speed. My guess is that is why Wise got the call. He can run and with games in N.L. parks for the next week, he can be used in those situations.

Just a guess.

Mark Liptak

Ozzie said the Sox were a different team with speed. I missed that. Seems than as only alexei has speed Ozzie needs almost a whole new team. In that regard Ozzie would be right , or was he wishing, yes, the Sox WOULD be a whole different team with speed because they ain’t got none.

Yes it is only AAA but:

Wise, 30, was hitting .319 (61-191) with nine home runs, 23 RBI, 39 runs scored and 15 stolen bases in 55 games with Charlotte this season. He ranks among the International League leaders in on-base percentage (4th, .402), on-base plus slugging percentage (5th, .967), batting average (T5th) and slugging percentage (7th, .565).

Owens is hurt and was getting thrown out a lot trying to steal this year. Looks like the only other option was the softball hitter, Brad Eldred but I think we have enough of those already.

I was angrily questioning the move also, until I read all the news about Owens.

Maybe for blog night we could all get oversized boxing gloves or those sumo-wrestling out fits and set up a ring in the picnic area. (jello anyone????)

Wouldn’t it be nice to continue to see an anguishing year and finish up 4 games in the division? Seems like the White Sox are due for about a 12 game win streak.

Thanks Mark, I check the Charlotte Observer regularly, and they did not have any info on Owens or Fields status.

I give them credit for bringing up speed rather than bringing up Brad Eldred. His numbers look tempting, but the speed was most important, especially for the upcoming stretch of games.

It doesn’t matter as neither Eldred or Wise will play anyway. This whole thing with Owens and Fields is exactly why I am all for trading any and all prospects for proven talent. It seems like 80 percent of the time the prospects never pan out anyway. Obviously, the Freddy for Gavin deal is an exception.

Wise is in there tonight, and don’t be shocked to see him out there as a starter a couple times a week. He is the kind of player that Ozzie likes.

I agree with Kenwo to the extent that I’ll trade any prospect any day of the week and twice on Sunday for a guy who has shown any kind of a track record succeeding in the highest level of baseball in the world.

I do disagree with him on the Garcia deal though….Freddy helped pitch the Sox to a World Series title. Jeremy Reed, considered by some fans a future All Star hasn’t done a thing, Olivo would be a nice back up catcher but that’s all… a back-up and Kenny was quoted as saying that Sox pitchers apparently had “issues” working with him (it may have been Ozzie who said that as well) and Morse the infielder, has never done anything either.

So overall I consider that a steal for Kenny.

Mark Liptak

Liptak- I meant the trade of Freddy for Gavin Floyd. The one to get Freddy was outstanding.

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