Tuesday Night

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

Tonight’s Lineup

OC, SS; AJ, C; Q, LF; Dye, RF; Thome, DH; Missle, 2B; Jr., CF; Swish, 1B; Uribe, 3B.  Richard pitching.


Sorry I haven’t posted since Thursday.  Friday, I took my family to the air and water show.  The team was in Oakland over the weekend (and I was still angry about Friday night) and yesterday, I played in the annual charity golf tournament for the Deicke Eye Center in Wheaton.  Dr. Tracy Williams, one of our eye doctors, hosts a tournament each summer to raise funds for his center.  Ed Farmer and Hawk Harrelson captain two teams and we play 27 holes.  It’s a long, fun day.

By the time I battled traffic down 355 and up 55, I didn’t get to the ballpark until the second inning (so credit the runs to me).

Joe Crede begins anoher rehab stint in Charlotte tonight, so let’s all hope for the best as far as his back is concerned.

First round pick Gordon Beckham is hitting .636 (7-11) with a double, home run, four RBI and four runs scored in his first three games at Class A Kannapolis.

If ever anyone wanted to compliment KW and our baseball ops department, today would have been the day … first, we beat Gio Gonzalez (how can you trade him) in Oakland Sunday, then return home to handle Seattle’s Jarrod Washburn with Carlos Quentin  homering to extend his league lead.

Anyone mention it?  Maybe, just maybe, they have a clue.


Hi Scott, nice of you to drop in again…… (hahahahah). That added to continue posting here. I thought the sarcasm might have executed me from this site…… Go Sox. Time for Richard to step up. His pitches down the middle won’t work with the Mariners ( or anyone else for that matter). So Get ahead, then put them away. What a concept…… j.k.

Its time to start locking it down for the home stretch boys. Lets put a little distance between us and the piranah’s.
GO SOX!!!!

I just noticed the both the Sox and the Cubs are playing in Chicago tonight. I know that sometimes both teams are in town at the same time, but usually the Cubs play a day game to our night game… A bit curious, and not good for attendance, I would think,…. Anyway, the Heck with the Cubs. Go White Sox… j.k.

Welcome back Scott!

Was at last nights game and gotta say it was a fun one and the atmosphere was pretty electric. Was a great fan base and yes, the MVP chants were there! At least half of those long balls surprised me….the ball was carrying!!

Let’s give the kid some run support tonight!!!

Wow! What looked like a bad start, turned out to be a good start!. When was the last time you saw a 3 (unasissted ) 2 double play? Good job by Clayton, getting out of a jam, good play by Swish… Go Sox… j.k.

That’s better Clayton… Three up, three down… That’s the way to chunk it… keep it up… Go White Sox ’08….j.k.

Alright, there’s a run. Could have been more, but I’m not greedy. Hold ’em down Clayton, and get the offense back up there… Go Sox… j.k.

Part of our hitting into a lot of double plays is we hit the ball hard, and with the lack of foot speed, it’s easier to turn it on us than on some other team. That being said, we have a 3-0 lead… Keep holding the fort Clayton…. Go sox… j.k.

Welcome back Scott!

Keep going boys – so far so good.


Man, Second and third, no outs and we can’t score…. Good pitching by Hernandez……. Oh for the want of a fly ball…… Still, up by a 4-0 score. All we need is for Clayton Richard to keep throwing like he’s been so far…. Go Sox.. j.k.

Way to go Jimmy! Just think, only about 60 days ago, most of us were screaming for Thome’s ouster… Not any more Boys and Girls… Go Sox….. j.k.

Hey gang, I’m finally home after watching hs volleyball – 3 hrs on hard bleachers does wonders for my – – -!

Looks like I’ve missed quite a game so far…

what were the 2 errors?

Ichiro can MOVE it down the line. Wouldn’t it be great if he was a White Sox???????????? Keep dreaming j.k. ain’t gonna happen. So he will get his two or three hits a game and make ALL the plays in right field….The good news is we’re shutting them down…5-0…… Good job by Clayton Richard… Go Sox… j.k.

It turned out to be no big deal, but in the first, Richard had a come backer by Ichiro that he threw away, but then he shut them down. Juan double clutched in the sixth for an error, again no problem… Nice to have you aboard, krisv…. Go White Sox’ 08…j.k.

Three more outs to go……. Isn’t it nice that now the Twins have to watch the scoreboard? We don’t need to worry about such mundane things…….. Not so long as we are in first place… Go Sox.. j.k.

My last inter-game post… Are you all annoyed yet?

Very nice job by Richard and good overall play by the offense. A lot of hit, not so many runs, but enough… I trust…. Three outs to go, so my final Go Sox’08…. j.k.

Oh, yeah!!! Sox win!! We have now equalled our win total of last year….. Many, many more wins to come… Go Sox… j.k.

Well thats another nice victory for the boys tonight. Way to go Clayton…about time! Seemed to me like he stopped trying to strike everyone out and let the defense work for him. Last night I was at the game and it was wonderful. I know these 2 teams stink but it is still nice to dominate night in and night out….makes it much easier on Klien and myself. Hopefully tomorrow is another good one- RA Dickey? you can’t be serious. Later

Hey kenwo, I wonder what the RA in RA Dickey stands for? Do you think it is Richard? If so then he’s Dick Dickey.

Too good to pass up…. And as a child his parents and friends would have called him Dickie Dickey…. Don’t make fun of a name, the owner just might break your heart….. Go Sox.. later all…. j.k.


Your comment on both the Sox and Cubs being home again (this was the case just about ten days ago or so) is a point that Bob Grim, one of the contacts between the Sox and the MLB scheduling folks, brought up in a interview. That’s one of the things he and the organization does not understand about today’s schedule makers. He did also say that in his opinion, MLB does favor certain teams regarding making out the schedule…just FYI.


Baseball is a funny game and the last thing I would have expected was Clayton Richard to pitch like a seasoned pro….but he did and all the credit should go to him on his first win. I don’t know if the first three performances were the norm and this was a fluke or visa versa but we’ll eventually find out.

Now the Sox need to do EXACTLY what the Twins did to these guys…sweep them right away.



Kenny Williams is a very good G.M. He has made some outstanding moves in his career and some that weren’t so outstanding, like all G.M.’s. He has usually brought home a “winning” season but doesn’t have a lot of post season appearances to his credit (unlike some other franchises).

I’m sorry, and have stated such, that he has to work so damn hard to accomplish what he has done in the past… given the Sox market size, attendance, advertising deals, history, radio and TV income and so forth.

He shouldn’t always have to get “creative,” or to “think outside the box” to get what he needs. This is Chicago, these are the White Sox…not the Pirates, Royals or Twins.

Kenny should be able to get a blank check and fill his areas of need at least once in a blue-moon (not Odom LOL!) Let us hope he has more latitude this coming off season…with so many probable free agents, a rebuilding minor league system and a definate need for a 5th starter (regardless of the price for such) he’s going to need it.

If I had to give him a grade for his eight years as G.M. I rate it as a solid B.

Mark Liptak

RA is Robert Alan. He’s a knuckleballer with a 3-7 record and had been demoted to the bullpen before Carlos Silva went on the DL. Threw 4 wild pitches against the Twinks recently. Our boys will have to be ready to run tomorrow.

Welcome back Scott! Maybe you could have someone from your office just post the lineups on the days you can’t check in?

No pie in the face for Clayton Richard (who badly needs a nickname!) but I heard he had a beer shower. He did just what the Sox needed tonight.

We will be out at the park tomorrow with our brooms! GO WHITE SOX!!

Surprise, surprise, I disagree with Mark Liptak again!

This big market thing is way overblown. The Sox are not alone.

The NY Mets have spent a ton of money in the last decade or two. Yet they have the same number of World Series titles in that time as the Sox and have been to the Series only one more time.

Similar cases for both LA market teams. The Dodgers have been to one World Series since 1981 and got hot at the right time to beat a superior Oakland team in 1988. They haven’t made many playoff appearances in that time either, but I don’t have the number in front of me and don’t feel like looking it up tonight.

The Angels have been to the postseason frequently in recent years but they, too, have only one World Series appearance (one in their history since 1961) and they won that one.

Phiily is a big market and they share it with no one (unlike the three biggest markets). Yet Philly hasn’t sniffed a World Series since 1993 and hasn’t won one since 1983.

Of course, the other team in our market hasn’t been to a World Series since Truman was in his first year as President. And we all know how long it has been since they won one. And talk about market advantages, tv advantages, big money ownership, etc., etc.

So, don’t go talking about how the big market White Sox are such a failure. Sure, I would have liked to have seen more postseason appearances and more rings. Hell, every teams’ fans would.

Regardless of how much money you bring in, how much money you spend, how many advantages you have, you still have to win the games between the white lines and in a variety of ballparks. Players and how they play (not how much they make) win games.

Kenny has done an outstanding job. Most of his mistakes were borne out of his aggressiveness to make the Sox a better team and not from sitting back and doing nothing. I haven’t agreed with everything he’s done (heck, his wife probably hasn’t either!!!) but I’ll give him props for a job well done.

And Carlos Quentin and Alexei Ramirez probably will too.

I think that was closer to the norm for Clayton Richard going by the way he had pitched in Charlotte and Birmingham. Kenwo was right on, he was not trying to strike out every hitter tonight. If he sticks around he will learn from a guy like Buerhle. There is a time for the strike out and there is a time to pitch to the bat and get a quick out. Danks is still learning, but has made huge strides since last year when he’d have a 100 pitches thru 4 innings. Richard has very good stuff including a fastball with jump. Hopefully tonight was a good learning experience and confidence booster.

I will take 5 of their starter tongiht any time. Felix Hernandez is a very good pitcher. The way Richard pitched his last 2 starts I thought for sure we might have some trouoble tonight.

Tomorrow should be interesting facing a knuckle baller. The Sox have struggled with that pitch when they have faced itthe past few years. Not an easy pitch if it is dancing for a home run team.

As for a grade for KW I would have to give him a B. Some of the moves he has made have been great, and there have been a few stinkers. The good ones outweigh the bad ones by far though. We won a World Series because of some of the moves so you can’t complain too much.

The reason he only gets a B though is because he is in charge of the whole organization, and for the most part the minor league system has gone to hell since he took over. Maybe it was because of the people he delegated reposnisbility to, but at the end of the day their shortcomings fall on his shoulders.

Now I do see improvement in the system. The picks of guys like Lance Broadway and Aaron Poreda are going to pay off. I loved this years draft, especially Beckham and Jordan Danks. Baseball America has Danks as one of the steals of the draft. They just need to keep re-stocking that system with talent, and that will take time.

I used to be upset about being a big market team, and not spending the money. We have a pretty sizeable payroll though, and good talent to show for it. Yeah it would nice to drop $25 mil a year on an A-Rod or Manny Ramirez, but that will never happen for the Sox. Now I would be upset if they let guys go because of money. Say a Carlos Quentin who if he keeps this up is going to get a huge pay day in a few years. If you have a solid base of guys that has to be kept together.

Eventually this market will correct itself too. With the economy quickly going down the crapper luxories like baseball tickets for families and businesses are going to be cut out. That means less payroll for everyone except probably the Yankees, but they will always be the highest because of their TV deal. I want them to spend to be competitive, but at the same time I don’t want to see them get stuck with bad long term contracts, ala Alfonso Soriano and the Cubs spending spree a few winters ago.

And surprise, surprise I disagree with T.C. again.

You can’t win a World Series T.C. if you don’t get to the post season can you? And just speaking for myself, 2005 was absolutely tremendous, a singular event, but that doesn’t give anyone a “lifetime pass.”

Given their advantages, which are sizable, (I think even you’ll admit that) the White Sox should be dominating the A.L. Central Division, which in reality is a four team division, K.C. is a Triple A franchise.

No one is talking about making the playoffs every year, no one is talking about making the playoffs every two years, but every three years, in this division, with the economic advantages the White Sox have, is very realistic in my opinion.

What the Yankees or Red Sox do or don’t do is only an issue if you are fighting for the “wild card.” If you are winning your division they are irrelevant.

And we’ll have to define our terms on “big market.” Philadelphia is NOT a big market team, they are to close to New York (as is Milwaukee to Chicago) neither is Detroit.

Los Angeles is… and what the Angels have done under Arte Moreno after 40 years of being the ‘red haired stepchild’ in So Cal is truly remarkable. In many respects they are the finest franchise in MLB.

Ultimately as Jim said, Kenny is judged on everything because he is in nominal charge of everything, from the minor league operation to the major league team. From post season appearances, to winning seasons. The buck stops with him.

I wasn’t ripping on Kenny, as stated, I think he does a very, very good job but there are other G.M.’s who have done as good a job as he and if one of the measuring sticks when judging a G.M. is “post season appearances” then Kenny has work to do in that regard. Sometimes the things that happen aren’t his fault… but sometimes they are too. I think a “B” is a very fair grade for his eight years.



I disagree with you on the “market correction” idea. I know some in MLB including Kenny, were shocked at what happened in December 2006. Some were hoping that trend would slow down or drop….it didn’t last year though and because of the law of supply and demand I can’t see it happening in the future. There will always be a team, for better or worse, driving the free market system.

Let’s put it this way, the U.S. has gone through economic difficulties before, remember the early 80’s? Particularly in Chicago?? That didn’t slow the pay scale or the market for talent did it?

That’s just one example. MLB is recording record income according to Proud To Be Your Bud and record fan attendance…that doesn’t appear to be changing regardless of the economic situation. We’ll see I guess.

One discussion that may prove to be very relevant in this area took place on Chicago Tribune Live during this past off season talking about the economics of baseball.

This point was made that with all the comments by Proud To Be Your Bud and the new revenue streams pouring into MLB, the time is coming (and may already be here) where a 100 million dollar payroll is the “average” for a franchise. That’s a lot of money to me but in relative terms, given the climate in MLB, that frankly may not be what it used to be.


One final observation, just speaking for myself, I personally enjoy when Scott makes notations about when he’s mad or upset. Be it with the performance on the field, be it with a member of the media, be it with the fan’s and their comments (and I include myself here — Scott and I have had our disagreements but he has always conducted himself professionally and he has always treated me well.)

I like the idea that Scott, like many in the Sox organization really care about what is going on. Working for the Sox is not just a pay check to them, it means more, it cuts deeper. That passion, you can’t put a price tag on.

Mark Liptak

Too funny, someone got shut down at the cubbie bear again and had nothing better to do at 2:45 in the morning. I guess you can stay up that late when you work the 2nd shift at McDonalds. But tell me, how is the internet service in a trailer park? Do you have to go WiFi?

Do you realize that not one single person on this earth, no one, not one soul, can remember the last time the flubs won anything. Seriously you would have to be 110 years old. That is an embarrassment to this city. Some people are too stupid to realize when they should be ashamed.

Maybe if we could get the Cell to smell like pee and fill it with 33,000 dip-sh!ts who have no idea what’s going on, it would make you feel at home and we could convert you and make you a man again. But probably not.

I realize someone this moronic should just be ignored but sometimes you get that perfect pass for the slam dunk and you can’t resist. Maybe now you can go back to your own pointless blog, bigcubbychubby.com now and post about all the super-duper hot babes you saw at the game, where to get the newest cubbie teddy bear that actually has a hole in the back, how many beers you can drink and oh yea, what ever happened in that game?

He is the most imbecilic man in the world.
Stay bitter my friend.

The picture starting to come into focus a little better, Klein? (re: your question at blog night)

He finally has a good team, won a good game last night, and that’s how he thinks to celebrate? Wow, talk about envy. That guy’s got it.

Also, dude, learn how to spell. As a flub fan, you think the word “swear” would come natural. But, I guess you can spew it but you can’t spell it.

Thanks billb! As I was reading cfan’s rant I was scratching my head wondering if he was for real or not. I kept waiting for a point to be made. Sadly, you are right, billb, that guy has no point, and clearly has no life either. There’s got to be something better to do in the city of Chicago at 2:45 in the morning than rag on one of the best baseball teams in the country. I’m still shaking my head, but now I feel sorry for that idiot. No more questions……..

I have some work to do this morning, so I may not be home for the start of todays game. I should be back sometime in the middle innings, so start us off good everybody, and I’ll catch up when I can…. Go Sox ’08….. j.k.


Postseason appearances really don’t mean much unless you get to or win the World Series. In fact, a first-round exit is often more disappointing than a second-place (non-wild card) finish in the division.

Case in point. Atlanta had a tremendous run. Something like 15 straight division titles or some obscene number like that. Yet they only made it to 5 World Series in those 15 years (and two of them were the first two years of that run) and only won one.

Now I’m not taking away anything from their accomplishments. Five World Series are a helluva lot more than most teams make in that span. But, if you ask their fans, they were very disappointed that they had so many early exits.

My point is this. Postseason appearances are great but success cannot be judged on just getting there. Success is a championship, be it a league or a World Series title.

And yes, Arte Moreno has spent a ton of money and does have a class organization. But even with all of that, the Angels are still the No. 2 franchise in the eyes of the fans in the LA market. Something about that damn Dodger Blue.

And unless I have counted wrong, the Angels have the same number of World Series titles and World Series appearances in their history (since 1961) as the White Sox in that same time period.

And the small-market Twins and Marlins each have more WS titles than the big market Angels, Mets and White Sox in the last couple of decades. So, when you rip the White Sox for not “dominating” because they are in a big market, try throwing some of that criticism at other teams as well.

Philadelphia is not a big market???? How about Houston, Dallas or the Bay Area? Or are only NY, Chicago and LA big markets in the Liptak world of geography????? And if you happen to agree that Houston, Dallas and the Bay Area are big markets, then I guess the Astros, Rangers, Giants and A’s are pretty bad for not winning any World Series titles in the last 19 years.


Let me make sure I understand you completely and correctly.

A team, say the White Sox, wins 93 games in a season, makes the post season and loses in the first round.

The season is a “disappointment”?????

Do I understand you right?????

If I did understand you properly, then that is one of the most ridiculous statements I ever seen.

ou can’t win a World Series if you don’t get to the post season first. After that especially in a short series, it’s a crap shoot where luck does play a part along with injuries.


And yes Houston and the Bay Area are major markets in my opinion and last I looked over the past 20 years, the A’s, Giants and Astros have made the playoffs a number of times. I wouldn’t consider those two decades, wasted or a disappointment in any sense.

I’d rather get to the post season and lose if that’s what to be, then finish in 3rd place with 84 wins.

Wouldn’t you T.C.?????

Mark Liptak


I also believe that in those 14 straight divisional titles the Braves only made the World Series once when they defeated Cleveland in 96 (I think…)


Regarding Cfan and his delirium.

I remember when I had my first beer.

And like my late father used to say, “cousins shouldn’t be allowed to breed.”

Mark Liptak

One final comment with my discussion with T.C. that I left out, I apologize.

I believe in the “law of averages.” You make the post season enough times and sooner or later your number is going to come up and you’ll win the whole ball of wax.

Obviously making the post season say ten times in 20 years increases that number then if you make it five times in 20.

Like the late Bill Walsh said one time, “the goal is to make the post season, once you get there anything can happen…”

Mark Liptak


Of course I would rather win a division than finish third. My point is this. When you look back at a season, in the long run, the only thing that ultimately counts is whether or not you won the championship.

Playoff appearances are nice. Yes, they give you a chance to win the World Series. But right now, in 2008, when I look back at winning the division in 2000 and getting swept by Seattle, that season is no better to me than 2006 when the Sox won 90 games and finished third behind two playoff teams and the eventual AL champion.

And how many World Series have the A’s, Giants and Astros won in recent memory? One. The A’s in the earthquake-interrupted Series in ’89. I’ll take the Sox’s accomplishments since then over any of those three teams. We’ve got rings and a trophy to show for it.

The Braves made the World Series in ’91 (lost to Twins) and ’92 (lost to Jays), ’95 (beat Tribe), ’96 (lost to Yanks) and ’99 (lost to Yanks). In every other year in that run they won a divisional title. Yet Braves fans still are disappointed because they only won it all once.

I guess I don’t just settle for postseason appearances. That might make me appear to be a Cubs fan.

Bill Walsh was right. Look at what the Cardinals did in 2006. Of course I want to make the postseason. That is the ultimate goal of any regular season.

But once you get there, it’s no fun unless you win it.


We’ll just have to agree to disagree then.

2000 means a lot more to me personally then 2003. 1993 means a lot more to me personally then 1996 and 1983 means a lot more to me then 1982.

Just because the Sox didn’t win it all doesn’t take away the joy of them having the chance to have done so. I was thrilled that they had the chance and that will always be special to me.

And like I told you, the memory’s the first thing to go. I completely drew a blank that the Braves went to five and only won one. God how I wish the Sox had the chance to go to five World Series in 14 years and only win one.

Mark Liptak


I know it sounds strange, but I’d rather be 1-0 in World Series than 1-4. I just cannot stand the pain of losing championship series or championship games.

Actually, it wouldn’t bother me as much if it were the World Series. To me, that is icing on the cake. The big thing is winning a pennant. I really hate to lose in the ALDS or ALCS. To play 162 games and then have it all come to an end in a short series is excruciating. And winning a division is no real solace to me since some teams win a division in the NL with 82 or 83 wins.

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